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Spacecadet

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#41 [url]

Jan 9 09 8:49 PM

hmm me thinks Prometheus is a huge trouble maker
ok well really he is just one of the elders who is a huge supporter of the humani.

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#42 [url]

Jan 10 09 7:31 AM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ January 09, 2009 02:49 pm)
hmm me thinks Prometheus is a huge trouble maker  
ok well really he is just one of the elders who is a huge supporter of the humani.

I wonder if Prometheus's theft and then giving it to the humani is one of the reasons that Mars Ultor became the Avenger? Perhaps that is why the Witch, sister of Prometheus, hardened the aura of Mars.
Roman Empire is represented by the metal that brought an end to the age of the Elders: iron. The Roman Empire is said to have been founded by Romulus and Remus, twin boys of Mars. Romulus and Remus, once Awakened by their father, fought. Myth says it was over where to build the city. Romulus killed his twin. Some myths say that Remus was struck with a shovel/spade, and one wonders if it was an iron implement.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#43 [url]

Jan 16 09 12:17 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 10, 2009 07:31 am)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ January 09, 2009 02:49 pm)
hmm me thinks Prometheus is a huge trouble maker  

ok well really he is just one of the elders who is a huge supporter of the humani.

I wonder if Prometheus's theft and then giving it to the humani is one of the reasons that Mars Ultor became the Avenger? Perhaps that is why the Witch, sister of Prometheus, hardened the aura of Mars.

Roman Empire is represented by the metal that brought an end to the age of the Elders: iron. The Roman Empire is said to have been founded by Romulus and Remus, twin boys of Mars. Romulus and Remus, once Awakened by their father, fought. Myth says it was over where to build the city. Romulus killed his twin. Some myths say that Remus was struck with a shovel/spade, and one wonders if it was an iron implement.

Perhaps, since fire was stolen from Olympus, Zeus could play a role in the series.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

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Michael Scott

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#44 [url]

Jan 23 09 10:48 AM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ January 09, 2009 08:23 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ January 09, 2009 03:19 pm)
Rereading the connection between Prometheus and Zeus made me think.  Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and gave it to the humani.  With fire the humani advanced and could finally create things like iron, which has the ability to take away the elders powers, which means Prometheus in a sense is responsible for the final downfall of the elders.

And Dora too! She was with Prometheus in giving the Humani fire.
EDIT
QUOTE (The Magician)
You have Prometheus and the Witch to thank for that. They brought fire to the first primitive humani. Cooking made it easier for mankind to digest the meat they hunted, allowed them to absorb the nutrients more easily. It kept them warm and safe in their caves, and Prometheus showed them how to use the same fire to harden their tools and weapons.

But Prometheus did do the showing of hardening tools!
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#45 [url]

Jan 31 09 9:46 AM

QUOTE (baksh)
well the only connection i think is that they both had blue eyes as original. Whereas Mars' eyes are red cos of the witch's curse(my presumption) and germain's are cos of fire magic(again my presumption).

I have to agree. We see everyone's eyes change to match the color of their aura's when they use magic and we know Germain's aura is red, so I think his eyes changing color was just in relation to matching his aura.

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne)
flamelssecret/hug2.gif Squee, thank you, LunaAquaVirgo, I was sure that I'd read it here. 

Michael hints that there is a connection between 'eye colors' and characters possibly being 'related' to one another.

We see many times when a character eyes flare, the irises change or the pupils change, but I'm really focusing on the eye color itself and then the flare.

Another reason to wonder about a connection is that we're told the previous names of Mars Ultor...Nergal...Ares.  Well Ares was the greek god of fire and war.  The son of Zues.  Prometheus stole fire from Zues.  Francis stole fire magic from Prometheus.

That would be an interesting connection, but I thought that the Greek god of fire was Hephaestus? I even did some research on this to check and I can't find one source that says Ares was the Greek god of war and fire, all I can find is Hephaestus as the Greek god of fire and his Roman counterpart is Vulcan.

QUOTE (baksh)
Well yes its a very intriguing connection, that can be very problematic for Josh, but maybe sophie will help Josh with it, cos she can lift the curse on Mars, and he might do anything for it....

I don't think it will be very problematic for Josh because I think it is hinted that we've seen the last of Mars for the series:

p. 436 of The Magician hardback, right after Josh goes with Sophie and them, Machiavelli says this to Dee "So the catacombs of Paris have yet another mysterious bone statue. First you kill Hekate and now Mars."
He is referring to how Dee solidified the bone that Flamel had liquefied, thus encasing Mars.

QUOTE (Michael Scott)
QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ November 21, 2008 04:00 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ November 21, 2008 09:21 am)
QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 20, 2008 09:18 pm)
So given that, one who has been bestowed with immortality could conspire to kill the Elder that gave it, so it could never be taken away?

And then that person would be free to make their own decisions....  I wonder if that is the case with Saint-Germain...

oo now that is an interesting theory... although do we know if St. Germaine learned his fire mastery from an elder or not.... I was under the impression he might have only borrowed the power and would have to give it back some day.

I thought it would be helpful to add that in the Magician, Scatty mentions to St Germain that Prometheus might want fire back someday.
QUOTE (The Magician)
You stole the secret of fire! Josh said.  The Comte de Saint-Germain nodded happily. From Prometheus.  And one of these days my uncle will want it back. Scathach's voice made them both jump. Neither had heard her enter the room. Nicholas is here, she said, and turned away.


Since we're about St G; I would suggest a little investigation into where he became immortal might be instructive!

Michael

I have already sent in my theory on how Germain became immortal as an answer to the question for this month's podcast, but since Michael posted this hint, I figured I'd go ahead and post my reasoning for how Germain is immortal here as well:

I think Saint Germain became immortal with the use of his fire magic. First off, he tells Sophie while teaching her fire magic that, "Fire can heal; it can seal a wound, can cut out disease." (Page 239 of The Magician hardback) If this is the case, then if he used it right, why couldn't he use it to keep himself young and healthy? He could cut out any disease or take care of any issue with his health with the use of his fire magic. He could probably even take care of any signs of age from wrinkles on his face, to aching joints, to something as serious as problems with his organs. This by itself just sounds like a good theory, but a couple of other quotes from the book really make this sound very likely.

p.135 of The Magician hardback (Sophie is telling Josh the Witch of Endor's memories/thoughts on Saint Germain):
"He's human...She met him for the first time in London in 1740. She knew immediately that he was an immortal human, and he claimed he'd discovered the secret of immortality when he was studying with Nicholas Flamel. But I don't think the Witch quite believed that. He told her that while traveling in Tibet he had perfected a formula for immortality that didn't need to be renewed each month. But when she asked him for a copy, he told her he'd lost it."

starting on p.192 of The Magician (Nicholas has just returned and they are all at the table):
"'You hadn't mastered fire the last time we met,' Nicholas said slowly. 'If I recall, you had some little ability with it, but nothing like the power you demonstrated yesterday. Who trained you?'
'I spent some time in India, in the lost city of Ophir...I met someone there...someone who trained me...Showed me how to use all the secret knowledge I'd gleaned from Prometheus..."

p.236 of The Magician (Germain is teaching Sophie on the roof)
"'Let me tell you what my own teacher taught me about fire.'"

So he told the Witch that he perfected his "formula" while in Tibet, and then he told Flamel that while in India he met the man who taught him how to use his fire magic. India and Tibet are both very close together and he could just be fudging the story a little to hide the truth or he could have followed that guy to Tibet where by learning his fire magic he "perfected" his "formula" for immortality. He would've learned from this man at this time the ability of fire magic to heal because he told Sophie he was telling her what his teacher had told him about fire magic. Also, he could've discovered his "secret" to immortality while studying with Nicholas, because that might've been the time he first learned about fire magic. Also, he wasn't lying to the Witch when he said he had "lost the formula" for immortality because he'd never actually had a formula (a written one) to begin with. This might also explain why he didn't give any of his "formula" to Nicholas to help his aging because maybe he can only do it on himself because he can't know other people's bodies well enough and would chance causing more harm than good.

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Spacecadet

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#46 [url]

Jan 31 09 4:37 PM

QUOTE (GitRDunn @ January 31, 2009 03:46 am)
QUOTE (JoyeuseOne)

Another reason to wonder about a connection is that we're told the previous names of Mars Ultor...Nergal...Ares.  Well Ares was the greek god of fire and war.  The son of Zues.  Prometheus stole fire from Zues.  Francis stole fire magic from Prometheus.

That would be an interesting connection, but I thought that the Greek god of fire was Hephaestus? I even did some research on this to check and I can't find one source that says Ares was the Greek god of war and fire, all I can find is Hephaestus as the Greek god of fire and his Roman counterpart is Vulcan.


Im not 100% certain but i think this might be the case of either the same god with multiple names from different mythologies, or as you often also see several gods with similar abilities/gods of (in this case fire).

QUOTE (GitRDunn @ January 31, 2009 03:46 am)

QUOTE (baksh)
Well yes its a very intriguing connection, that can be very problematic for Josh, but maybe sophie will help Josh with it, cos she can lift the curse on Mars, and he might do anything for it....

I don't think it will be very problematic for Josh because I think it is hinted that we've seen the last of Mars for the series:

p. 436 of The Magician hardback, right after Josh goes with Sophie and them, Machiavelli says this to Dee "So the catacombs of Paris have yet another mysterious bone statue. First you kill Hekate and now Mars."
He is referring to how Dee solidified the bone that Flamel had liquefied, thus encasing Mars.


I do believe someone else thought that Mars was in fact dead, and Michael replied with something like "says who". I do think we will in fact see more from Mars.

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#47 [url]

Jan 31 09 6:00 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ January 31, 2009 04:37 pm)
QUOTE (GitRDunn @ January 31, 2009 03:46 am)

QUOTE (baksh)
Well yes its a very intriguing connection, that can be very problematic for Josh, but maybe sophie will help Josh with it, cos she can lift the curse on Mars, and he might do anything for it....

I don't think it will be very problematic for Josh because I think it is hinted that we've seen the last of Mars for the series:

p. 436 of The Magician hardback, right after Josh goes with Sophie and them, Machiavelli says this to Dee "So the catacombs of Paris have yet another mysterious bone statue. First you kill Hekate and now Mars."
He is referring to how Dee solidified the bone that Flamel had liquefied, thus encasing Mars.


I do believe someone else thought that Mars was in fact dead, and Michael replied with something like "says who". I do think we will in fact see more from Mars.

Well, that would make sense then. I thought that it was kind of odd for Machiavelli to assume Mars was dead when he was just trapped in bone (I doubt he needs to breath, his skin has been stone for probably centuries). I had a feeling there might be more to it and with Michael making a comment like that, it really seems there is more to it.

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#48 [url]

Jan 31 09 10:18 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (JoyeuseOne)

Another reason to wonder about a connection is that we're told the previous names of Mars Ultor...Nergal...Ares.  Well Ares was the Greek god of fire and war.  The son of Zeus.  Prometheus stole fire from Zeus.  Francis stole fire magic from Prometheus.
QUOTE (GitRDunn)

That would be an interesting connection, but I thought that the Greek god of fire was Hephaestus?  I even did some research on this to check and I can't find one source that says Ares was the Greek god of war and fire, all I can find is Hephaestus as the Greek god of fire and his Roman counterpart is Vulcan.
Many male deities of the Hellenistic Olympians for early Europe and Asia Minor are solar class deities. Greek mythology held that Helios was the Titan 'god of Sun' while Zeus was the Olympian 'god of Sky and Thunder'.
---Ares was the ancient god and national deity of Thrace, and as evidenced by solar symbols found on coins from Thrace and Macedon, he was their Sun god. In early times Thracians were not considered as simply vicious war-mongerers. Ares, then, was most often associated as the god of Sun rather than the god of battle and war. Later, however, the Thracians garner a much more savage reputation for their brutality and barbarism, and their god undergoes a metamorphosis too, more known as a spirit of violence and worshipped for war/battle rather than as a god of Sun. In fact, it was said Ares'd hear a battle cry, put on his battle helm and wage war, not caring who won or lost, only caring for maximum carnage and death. {Mars Ultor}.
-----Apollo was the son of Zeus and Leto while Ares was the son of Zeus and Hera. Both Apollo and Ares have twin sisters: Artemis/Eris. However, Ares later became more associated with the Roman cognate, Mars, 'God of War' {Ares is spoken of as a lesser deity in Iliad and the Odyssey} while Apollo is largely propagated as the Sun god, basically taking over the godship from Helios. Both Apollo and Ares, in addition to being Zeus's sons and each having twin sisters, have similar chariots that go across the sky, too.
-----Hephaestus, cognate of the Roman god Vulcan, is brother to both Apollo and Ares and was the god of blacksmithing - literally fire and forge. And just like Apollo and Ares, he too, had a chariot that transported him across the sky. Heph {irony?} was said to have been married to beautiful Aprhodite, though his wife is sometimes known as Aglaia.
---------We know from the books that Nick considered three Elder's to teach Fire magic to Josh: Vulcan, Maui, and Prometheus.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#49 [url]

Feb 5 09 4:00 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 31, 2009 10:18 pm)
QUOTE
QUOTE (JoyeuseOne)

Another reason to wonder about a connection is that we're told the previous names of Mars Ultor...Nergal...Ares.  Well Ares was the Greek god of fire and war.  The son of Zeus.  Prometheus stole fire from Zeus.  Francis stole fire magic from Prometheus.
QUOTE (GitRDunn)

That would be an interesting connection, but I thought that the Greek god of fire was Hephaestus?  I even did some research on this to check and I can't find one source that says Ares was the Greek god of war and fire, all I can find is Hephaestus as the Greek god of fire and his Roman counterpart is Vulcan.
Many male deities of the Hellenistic Olympians for early Europe and Asia Minor are solar class deities. Greek mythology held that Helios was the Titan 'god of Sun' while Zeus was the Olympian 'god of Sky and Thunder'.

Actually, Helios was, I think, Roman, either that, or it wasn't a god, but a Titan. The god of sun was Apollo, Zeus was the lord of the sky, but I believe that the myth is that Apollo and Artemis obtained their rule over the sun and mood from Helios and someone else whom I can't remember.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

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#50 [url]

Feb 5 09 3:35 PM

QUOTE (Ectw101 @ February 04, 2009 10:00 pm)
Actually, Helios was, I think, Roman, either that, or it wasn't a god, but a Titan. The god of sun was Apollo, Zeus was the lord of the sky, but I believe that the myth is that Apollo and Artemis obtained their rule over the sun and mood from Helios and someone else whom I can't remember.

The Roman god of the sun was Sol or more specifically Sol Invictus which is literally translated as "Unconquered Sun".
---Helios is the Greek word for 'sun'. Homer calls him Titan or Hyperion; Hesiod, in the epic poem Theogony, lists him as the son of Hyperion and Theia, Titans; he's said to not only be the Sun but is the 'god of the Sun', and the brother of Selene {the moon goddess} and Eos {goddess of the dawn}. Around the time of Euripides (480-406 BC) is when Apollo seems to become the equivalent of Helios and begins to take his place as Greek god of sun. Artemis takes over from Selene, their Roman cognate was Diana/Luna.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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dreamingofedward

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#51 [url]

Feb 5 09 4:17 PM

Depending on the source, some of the info about Apollo taking Sol's place is a little different. "Apollo and Helios/Sol remained separate beings in literary and mythological texts until the third century CE" (CE=AD) - from Wiki. And, further research on Sol Invictus explains that "Sol Invictus" is really a term, or title, not really a specific person.


Since this is a topic about St. Germain, I am going to throw out a theory... what if he actually does have an elder? Since he claims to have discovered the secret himself, we really have only the info he gives us.

My other theory centers around the fact that he has stolen fire - and I wonder if stealing that power somehow made him immortal. And if he has to give the power back, will he become mortal again.... hmmmm.... flamelssecret/idk.gif stuff to think about....

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#52 [url]

Feb 5 09 6:44 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ February 05, 2009 10:17 am)
Depending on the source, some of the info about Apollo taking Sol's place is a little different.  "Apollo and Helios/Sol remained separate beings in literary and mythological texts until the third century CE" (CE=AD) - from Wiki.  And, further research on Sol Invictus explains that "Sol Invictus" is really a term, or title, not really a specific person.

True enough. I've got about four books on theology/mythology for school and each have conflicting info in them. Even the educators are unable to agree...
QUOTE
Since this is a topic about St. Germain, I am going to throw out a theory... what if he actually does have an elder?  Since he claims to have discovered the secret himself, we really have only the info he gives us.
Didn't Michael say somewhere on the forum that Germain didn't have an Elder? I'll scour about and see if I can find that quote.
QUOTE
My other theory centers around the fact that he has stolen fire - and I wonder if stealing that power somehow made him immortal.  And if he has to give the power back, will he become mortal again....  hmmmm....  flamelssecret/idk.gif stuff to think about....
Well, he'd already obtained immortality before he'd ever met the Witch. That first meeting occurred in 1740s {oops, it wasn't 1730} London, he'd already been a student of Nick's and he'd have been in his late 20s/early 30s at that point in time {as Michael told us that Germain was born in 1710}. Doesn't mean he hadn't already stolen that Fire magic from Prometheus, but if he had then why, if the Witch so disliked him for that theft, would she ever have agreed to take Germain on as a student? He calls her "my old teacher".

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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dreamingofedward

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#53 [url]

Feb 5 09 8:06 PM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ February 05, 2009 01:44 pm)
Well, he'd already obtained immortality before he'd ever met the Witch.  That first meeting occurred in 1730s London, he'd already been a student of Nick's and he'd have been in his late 20s/early 30s at that point in time.  Doesn't mean he hadn't already stolen that Fire magic from Prometheus, but if he had then why, if the Witch so disliked him for that theft, would she ever have agreed to take Germain on as a student?  He calls her "my old teacher".

I am not sure about some of that - while I agree he was already immortal when he met the witch - that doesn't tell us anything about when he met/stole the fire from Prometheus. And since he went off on his own and "found" immortality - we don't know where that find came from, and it could have been in conjunction with his theft of fire - since I don't recall ever reading when exactly he stole fire. But maybe I missed that somewhere. He could have been a student of Nicholas' before he had the magic of fire.

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#54 [url]

Feb 5 09 8:34 PM

Well, the reason I say he'd already been a student of Nick's is because this is from the Witch's own memory, which we have via Sophie.

QUOTE (The Magician)
“He’s not an Elder or a Next Generation.  He’s human.  Even the Witch didn’t know a lot about him.  She met him for the first time in London in 1740.  She knew immediately that he was an immortal human, and he claimed he’d discovered the secret of immortality when he was studying with Nicholas Flamel….I don’t think the Witch quite believed that.  He told her that while traveling in Tibet he had perfected a formula for immortality that didn’t need to be renewed each month.  But when she asked him for a copy, he told her he’d lost it.  Apparently, he spoke every language in the world fluently, was a brilliant musician and had a reputation as a jewel maker….And the Witch didn’t like or trust him.” [pgs 134-135];
So this tells me that Francis had achieved immortality after he'd been Nick's student, and even Nick had said that Francis had had some small talent with fire "the last time" he'd seen him.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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Spacecadet

Next Generation Elder

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#55 [url]

Feb 5 09 8:47 PM

hmm it says he has a reputation as a jewel maker... i wonder if thats an offhanded reference to the philosophers stone .... i mean it was known for being able to turn base metals into gold, as well as of course help with the creation of the elixir of life.... hmm curious.

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#56 [url]

Feb 5 09 8:57 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ February 05, 2009 11:17 am)
Depending on the source, some of the info about Apollo taking Sol's place is a little different.  "Apollo and Helios/Sol remained separate beings in literary and mythological texts until the third century CE" (CE=AD) - from Wiki.  And, further research on Sol Invictus explains that "Sol Invictus" is really a term, or title, not really a specific person.


Since this is a topic about St. Germain, I am going to throw out a theory... what if he actually does have an elder?  Since he claims to have discovered the secret himself, we really have only the info he gives us. 

My other theory centers around the fact that he has stolen fire - and I wonder if stealing that power somehow made him immortal.  And if he has to give the power back, will he become mortal again....  hmmmm....  flamelssecret/idk.gif stuff to think about....

I thought the same thing about fire magic being his source for immortality. First off, he tells Sophie while teaching her fire magic that,
(Page 239 of The Magician hardback)
QUOTE
Fire can heal; it can seal a wound, can cut out disease.

If this is the case, then if he used it right, why couldn't he use it to keep himself young and healthy? He could cut out any disease or take care of any issue with his health with the use of his fire magic. He could probably even take care of any signs of age from wrinkles on his face, to aching joints, to something as serious as problems with his organs. This by itself just sounds like a good theory, but a couple of other quotes from the book really make this sound very likely.

p.135 of The Magician hardback (Sophie is telling Josh the Witch of Endor's memories/thoughts on Saint Germain):
QUOTE
He's human...She met him for the first time in London in 1740. She knew immediately that he was an immortal human, and he claimed he'd discovered the secret of immortality when he was studying with Nicholas Flamel. But I don't think the Witch quite believed that. He told her that while traveling in Tibet he had perfected a formula for immortality that didn't need to be renewed each month. But when she asked him for a copy, he told her he'd lost it.


starting on p.192 of The Magician (Nicholas has just returned and they are all at the table):
QUOTE
"You hadn't mastered fire the last time we met,' Nicholas said slowly. 'If I recall, you had some little ability with it, but nothing like the power you demonstrated yesterday. Who trained you?'
'I spent some time in India, in the lost city of Ophir...I met someone there...someone who trained me...Showed me how to use all the secret knowledge I'd gleaned from Prometheus..."


p.236 of The Magician (Germain is teaching Sophie on the roof)
QUOTE
"Let me tell you what my own teacher taught me about fire."


So he told the Witch that he perfected his "formula" while in Tibet, and then he told Flamel that while in India he met the man who taught him how to use his fire magic. India and Tibet are both very close together and he could just be fudging the story a little to hide the truth or he could have followed that guy to Tibet where by learning his fire magic he "perfected" his "formula" for immortality. He would've learned from this man at this time the ability of fire magic to heal because he told Sophie he was telling her what his teacher had told him about fire magic. Also, he could've discovered his "secret" to immortality while studying with Nicholas, because that might've been the time he first learned about fire magic. Also, he wasn't lying to the Witch when he said he had "lost the formula" for immortality because he'd never actually had a formula (a written one) to begin with. This might also explain why he didn't give any of his "formula" to Nicholas to help his aging because maybe he can only do it on himself because he can't know other people's bodies well enough and would chance causing more harm than good.

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#57 [url]

Feb 5 09 9:41 PM

Yayz, I found the quote, from here.

QUOTE (Michael Scott)
St Germain is such an interesting character; a little online research will reveal a lot more about him. And remember, he became immortal by his own hand...
So he's not beholden to an Elder for his immortality. I'm of the mind that Francis made several trips to India, and while I think that his immortality and his meeting the hook-handed man who trained him in Fire magic occurred in the same place, I don't think that they occurred at the same time.
--------Fire Magic can give immortality? That's a good idea. But this means that Sophie could have that ability...unless it is a particular knowledge?

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#58 [url]

Feb 5 09 10:20 PM

i think he got immortality not by fire because it can cut out disease and sickness but he didn't say it could stop aging

Ní bhíonn saoi gan locht.
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#60 [url]

Feb 5 09 11:05 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ February 05, 2009 04:32 pm)
stealing fire could certainly fall under the category of "by [one's] own hand" too!

I agree, it could indicate that. I just don't connect the two in my mind.
QUOTE (The Magician)
"She especially doesn't like me because I became immortal through my own efforts and, unlike Nicholas and Perry, I don't need any recipe from a book to remain undying." <sic> "But the real reason the Witch of Endor doesn't like me is because I --- an ordinary mortal---became Master of Fire." <sic> "Well, when I say learned, I should really say stole."
To me, that seems to indicate separate instances, though truthfully they can go either way to support opposing theories.
---Germain's comments seem to be directly in line with the Witch's memories. And again, he'd already obtained immortality by the time he'd first met the Witch, so why, if the sticky-fire-fingered thief was not a favorite of hers, why would/did she take him on as a student? Could the answer to that be as simple as 'she'd seen a thread in time'?
-----*shrugs* It just seems to me that she met the immortal Germain in 1740, took him on as a student, and sometime later he met up with Prometheus, stole the fire magic, and lit out for parts unknown, trying to find someone who could teach him how to use the magic he'd stolen.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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