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#221 [url]

Sep 3 10 9:19 AM

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I've realized just now. Tammuz is referring to the dryads and hamadryads who got killed when Germain burned the forest in Russia in the early 1900s.
Thanks Zeph for asking. I meant the post as an open question for everyone. Now I answered my own question.
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But still this is just a theory. Do you think Germain really killed someone? flamelssecret/crazy.gif

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#222 [url]

Nov 17 10 8:54 PM

What if He needed to kill someone to get an ingredient for his immortality potion?
That would explain his refusal to give the witch his recipe.

I thought of this after reading the chronicles of prydain...

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#223 [url]

Dec 9 10 11:57 PM

Good point or mabye he used Archon or Earthlord methods or was granted immortility by one of the Witch`s enemies though I highly doubt it. flamelssecret/forum trolls.gif

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#224 [url]

Dec 10 10 12:05 AM

I think that we will find out about it in the upcoming books. Maybe Marethyu made him immortal.

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#225 [url]

Dec 10 10 12:15 AM

I doubt it because it means death in the elder tounge and he just seems to want to make new races rise and fall when apropriate so realy just like a guide for sapient races. flamelssecret/forum trolls.gif

War is nothing Death is weak but together their effects are strong Aura is all
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#226 [url]

Dec 23 10 6:11 AM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 21, 2008 04:46 pm)
That's what I've been looking into... although I've not turned over anything we hadn't already figured out.

He became Immortal on his "own", but can't remember how...

The Witch of Endor doesn't like him... He claims it's because he became immortal by his own means...

He stole the Magic of Fire from Prometheus, and was taught to use it by a man who refused to let him speak his name...

He also planted fake gold on land and sold it as gold mines...

So, we know he can be sneaky and underhanded to obtain his own goals.

Would it be that far of a stretch to think that he convinced an Elder to grant him immortality, then killed that Elder?

do you think, that marethyu couldve given him immortality, or did it come with the package of stealing the flamelssecret/fire.gif magic? because, St.G didnt seem surprised or frightened of marethyu when he saw him. it seemed like he almost greeted him like a friend, or am i remembering incorrectly? flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif

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#227 [url]

Jan 4 11 11:40 PM

I have a really bad feeling Saint-Germain will end up being a villian, I can't remember a single character in the book that hasn't called him the thief or the liar. Well that is other then Joan and the Flamels.

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#228 [url]

Jan 8 11 1:14 AM

QUOTE (MrPresident @ January 04, 2011 11:40 pm)
I have a really bad feeling Saint-Germain will end up being a villian, I can't remember a single character in the book that hasn't called him the thief or the liar. Well that is other then Joan and the Flamels.

I dont think he will be i think he loves joan a lot and that he probably did tons of bad stuff before meeting her but she changed him.. for the most part he even admits that he was bad before her in the sorceress.. or the magician..

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#230 [url]

Jan 10 11 6:15 PM

I think he is a friend. Though alot of people in the Flamel world do seem to dislike him quite a bit hahah. I think he will stick with Flamel and that side.

Oh, and ChicagoanNecromancer...i too am a Chicagoan! though right now im a ChicagoanMagician lol

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#231 [url]

Jan 10 11 11:06 PM

I think that he is a friend because he has helped out thus far right so why would he turn back now.

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#232 [url]

Jan 11 11 3:17 AM

QUOTE (Areop-Enap sister24 @ December 23, 2010 06:11 am)
QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 21, 2008 04:46 pm)
That's what I've been looking into...  although I've not turned over anything we hadn't already figured out.

He became Immortal on his "own", but can't remember how...

The Witch of Endor doesn't like him...  He claims it's because he became immortal by his own means...

He stole the Magic of Fire from Prometheus, and was taught to use it by a man who refused to let him speak his name...

He also planted fake gold on land and sold it as gold mines...

So, we know he can be sneaky and underhanded to obtain his own goals.

Would it be that far of a stretch to think that he convinced an Elder to grant him immortality, then killed that Elder?

do you think, that marethyu couldve given him immortality, or did it come with the package of stealing the flamelssecret/fire.gif magic? because, St.G didnt seem surprised or frightened of marethyu when he saw him. it seemed like he almost greeted him like a friend, or am i remembering incorrectly? flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif flamelssecret/fire.gif

it was Marethyu who helped him learn the secret of fire magic he stole from Prometheus that's why St. Germain already knows Marethyu, and he has no master. maybe St. Germain was already immortal when he stole fire?

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#233 [url]

Jan 13 11 2:42 AM

At first i thought he might be a friend( well i still do) because he helped Nicholas and the twins a lot. but something that bothers me is the lack of trust from the Witch of Endor and we still dont know how he exactly became immortal.

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#234 [url]

Jan 13 11 3:34 AM

well all Elders are wary (even hate) St. Germain, and he is well aware that he has made lots of enemies with both humani and Elders.

maybe he's a bit like Dee, he'll do anything to get the things he desires, and that he thinks what he's doing is good. the only difference is that Dee is a megalomaniac. and maybe St. Germain's marriage to Joan has made him change his ways

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#236 [url]

Jan 22 11 9:10 PM

QUOTE (eabrea @ January 10, 2011 09:17 pm)
it was Marethyu who helped him learn the secret of fire magic he stole from Prometheus that's why St. Germain already knows Marethyu, and he has no master. maybe St. Germain was already immortal when he stole fire?

QUOTE (The Magician)
“He’s not an Elder or a Next Generation.  He’s human.  Even the Witch didn’t know a lot about him.  She met him for the first time in London in 1740.  She knew immediately that he was an immortal human, and he claimed he’d discovered the secret of immortality when he was studying with Nicholas Flamel….I don’t think the Witch quite believed that.  He told her that while traveling in Tibet he had perfected a formula for immortality that didn’t need to be renewed each month.  But when she asked him for a copy, he told her he’d lost it.  Apparently, he spoke every language in the world fluently, was a brilliant musician and had a reputation as a jewel maker….And the Witch didn’t like or trust him.” [pgs 134-135];
In an answer to my supposition ages ago, Mr. Scott told us that St. Germain was born in 1710.
He was younger than Flamel, a student of his with some talent for fire.
QUOTE (The Magician)
"You hadn't mastered fire the last time we met,' Nicholas said slowly. 'If I recall, you had some little ability with it, but nothing like the power you demonstrated yesterday. Who trained you?'
'I spent some time in India, in the lost city of Ophir...I met someone there...someone who trained me...Showed me how to use all the secret knowledge I'd gleaned from Prometheus..."
So, the way it's always read to me is he studied under Flamel, learned Immortality from the hook-handed man, studied under the Witch and lied about how he'd obtained Immortality & at some point stealing knowledge of Fire Magic from Dora's brother Prometheus, and then returning to the hook-handed man who taught him how to utilize the knowledge of Fire that he'd stolen.
***I could be totally off base, though.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#237 [url]

Jan 22 11 9:12 PM

I agree with you there JoyuseOne I think that is a very good observation.

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#238 [url]

Jan 30 11 7:26 PM

QUOTE (Mandragora)
I checked it out. VERY interesting indeed. Did you notice how the gateway looked similiar to King Midas' tomb entrance? Pretty peculiar.
Totally, I'm interested in so-called star-gates like 'the gate of the gods' just from studying up on the hebdomads and the 7 spheres of the Celestials/7 heavens {where we get the term 7th heaven}. Also from World of Warcraft. Michael said that there were 'major' things to come and I'm guessing that one of them has to do the the Ancient of Days also known as Gilgamesh.
---I think it also a clever play on the 9 circles of heaven from 'The Devine Comedy'.
------There's an old Marvel comics series that talk about the Celestials, which comprise the Eternals and the Deviants...they have levels of "generations" too. And I can see a few parallels with this series and the Marvel series.
QUOTE (Mandragora)
While I was searching Germaine I found a book he possessed at one time called "The Triangle book" I think this may be how he gained immortality. It has a few spells for immortality in it. BUT my point for typing this into the Warlock section is the illistrations that I looked at seem vaguely familiar. There is a lot of sacred geometry involved but to me it looked similiar to the center emblems on the cover. 2 large circles with a small circle in the center, the center of that circle a point and a triangle over the top. (please look it up if you can I am horrible at explaining this stuff) I wonder if its a hint that Germaine is actually the Warlock?
I actually dived into Germain research head first. But with what was provided in the books - there were only two out at that time - and comments from Michael himself, kept firmly in mind. Then I wrote a small rambling essay for the Immortal Portal and I think it is probably still on the site for fans to read.
---Basically, Michael gave us a firm date of birth for Francis {1710}, which cancels out a lot of the transcendendtal/new age stuff claimed by the theosophical society, such as his being the son of Bacon {who in the series was an Immortal to the Dark Elders and Dee's predecessor}. So anything to do with that aspect, I didn't discount altogether, but took with huge grains of salt and tried to keep things in perspective.
----------Regards to the emblems and the Triangle book. Well, here's one of the takes on its appearance: "The Triangular Book Of Saint-Germain consists of 24 triangular leaves of parchment, 44 manuscript pages, nine inches on each side in a hog-skin cover. A plush-lined case with the figure of a dragon has kept it in pristine shape. The cypher consists of twenty-six arbitrary characters, translatable by frequency. - only problem was according to most new age claims, Germain made multiple copies of his special book and none of the copies were exactly identical.
------Again this was the new age stuff, so rather than taking their intent, I researched the symbols themselves. The circle with a dot is actually an alchemical symbol for the sun and is on the cover of the Magician; also, it's the trigger tattoo that Sophie now has on her right wrist so that she can tap into Fire magic.
-------------The "Triangles" of the so-called Triangle book represent alchemical symbols, in my opinion, which when inverted with one overlaying the other form a well known hexagram. From a prior post of mine a long while back: "Another interesting fact is that all of the symbols for fire {user posted image}, earth {user posted image}, water {user posted image}, air {user posted image} of the four magics can be interconnected to create the Star of David. This is a similar philosophy about the Celtic trinity knot where vital essences {body, spirit, mind} were eternally interwoven, or the pentacle {not pentagram} - Fire, earth, water, air, spirit - all inter-connected, working together in an eternal 'As above/so below' concept.
Abraham had such clear vision, why did the book end up in the Flamel's possession and so they became its 'guardian' for 600 or so years. Then the hook-handed man just happens to come directly into their sphere and helps 'translate' the book while bidding them not to say his name, then he just pops up and trains Francis {Flamel's Apprentice} in Fire magic bidding him not to say his name, who just happens to get the opportunity to teach Sophie fire magic so many years later. Way too many coincidences and Michael has told us that there are no coincidences {except maybe the pop culture ref above}.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#239 [url]

Jan 30 11 9:18 PM

I will have to read up on your 7th heaven theory. I keep coming across it in research but I haven't had a chance to really look into it. I also think Gilgamesh will be a major factor in things to come...I just haven't put a finger on it yet (which of course is the beauty of theories ) Nice Marvel reference lol.

I think there is something weird with the fact that Germaine's name is Francis. There are so many people with that first name that can be linked to him. Since you have been with the forum longer, I was wondering what Michael said about Germaine's date of birth being 1710....For some reason I feel that he is way older than that and am wondering if he meant 1710 is when he took on the name Germaine.

This quote that you put up actually got me thinking about "The Triangle Book"

QUOTE
“He’s not an Elder or a Next Generation.  He’s human.  Even the Witch didn’t know a lot about him.  She met him for the first time in London in 1740.  She knew immediately that he was an immortal human, and he claimed he’d discovered the secret of immortality when he was studying with Nicholas Flamel….I don’t think the Witch quite believed that.  He told her that while traveling in Tibet he had perfected a formula for immortality that didn’t need to be renewed each month.  But when she asked him for a copy, he told her he’d lost it.  Apparently, he spoke every language in the world fluently, was a brilliant musician and had a reputation as a jewel maker….And the Witch didn’t like or trust him.” [pgs 134-135];

I'm sure you remember reading that the book was describing the importance of finding diamonds,(which was his trademark gift)gold and silver. Could explain his jewel maker reputation. I think the various copies were a joke Germaine found funny. I am also wondering what Germaine and the Witch are doing in London during the Blitz, since he was rumored to be an English Spy.

I found that the circle with a point(please forgive me for not remembering my reference) also means water and aether, the outer circle symbolizing water and the point standing for aether.
By the way this is totally off topic but I have that symbol(circle and point) tattooed on my back in hieroglyphic monad form. which you will recognize is Dee's symbol. It represents the sun as well as gold.

I think your research is awesome and I am glad to interact and pick your brain. I do think that at one time Germaine and Dee knew eachother well. For some reason I think Germaine out smarted him.

EDIT: p.s. I clicked on your link to the 1710 reference. well that debunks that theory!!!

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#240 [url]

Feb 17 11 11:18 PM

The scarcity of contemporary biographical detail about St. Germain (alongside his own apparent self-mythologising) has supported the construction of many versions of his origins and ancestry, including that he was:
The son of Francis II Rákóczi, the Prince of Transylvania, by Rákóczi's first wife Originally his name was Rákóczi Lipót Lajos György József Antal.
Francis Bacon, true heir to the Throne of England, born to Queen Elizabeth I and Robert Dudley. He was given to the Bacon family who raised him and this secret was kept (Dr. Raymond Bernard, The Great Secret – St. Germain).
The illegitimate son of Maria Anna of Pfalz-Neuburg, the widow of Charles II of Spain
The son of the king of Portugal (presumably John V)
Earliest accounts of him originated in the middle part of the 18th century, although specific records of his birth and death have been obscured. This has led to speculation by some that he never actually died, but rather ascended. The "St." in his name was not sanctioned by the Catholic Church, but rather refers to "Sanctus Germanus" or "holy brother", which is said to be a name he gave himself. He was apparently arrested in London, as well as Edinburgh for spying, although he was soon released. It was said that he was an accomplished violinist among many other things, and quite eccentric. He disappeared and reappeared several times throughout Europe, and each time he had a different name and title, and his claims would be more fanciful. There were accounts of him showing his ability to turn iron and other metals into gold through manipulating the chemistry of the elements (alchemy), and yet he never had anything in the way of possessions. He is thought to have died around 1784, however there were rumors of him being seen in different areas of Europe in the 1800's. Throughout the years, there have been those who have claimed to be him.
Annie Besant said that she met the Count in 1896.
C. W. Leadbeater claimed to have met him in Rome in 1926 and gave a physical description of him as having brown eyes, olive colored skin, and a pointed beard; according to Leadbeater, "the splendour of his Presence impels men to make obeisance".Leadbeater said that Saint Germain showed him a robe that had been previously owned by a Roman Emperor and that Saint Germain told him that one of his residences was a castle in Transylvania. According to Leadbeater, when performing magical rituals in his castle in Transylvania, Saint Germain wears "a suit of golden chain-mail which once belonged to a Roman Emperor; over it is thrown a magnificent cloak of Tyrian purple, with on its clasp a seven-pointed star in diamond and amethyst, and sometimes he wears a glorious robe of violet."
Guy Ballard claimed that he met Saint Germain on Mount Shasta in California in August 1930, and that this initiated his "training" and experiences with other Ascended Masters in various parts of the world.Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet", was asked while in trance if Saint Germain was present. Cayce's reply was: "When needed."
Myths, legends and speculations about St. Germain began to be widespread in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and continue today. They include beliefs that he is immortal, the Wandering Jew, an alchemist with the "Elixir of Life", a Rosicrucian, and that he prophesied the French Revolution. He is said to have met the forger Giuseppe Balsamo (alias Cagliostro) in London and the composer Rameau in Venice. Many groups honor Saint Germain as a supernatural being called an Ascended Master. He is referred to in Theosophy as the Master Rakoczy or the Master R.. In the Ascended Master Teachings he is referred to simply as Saint Germain, or as the Ascended Master Saint Germain. As an Ascended Master, Saint Germain is believed to have many magical powers such as the ability to teleport, levitate, walk through walls, and to inspire people telepathically, among others. Helena Blavatsky said that he was one of her Masters of Wisdom and hinted that he had given her secret documents. Some esoteric groups credit him with inspiring the Founding Fathers to draft the United States Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, as well as providing the design of the Great Seal of the United states

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