Remove this ad

#41 [url]

Jan 13 09 1:01 AM

QUOTE (~Kat.Flow~ @ January 13, 2009 12:02 am)
QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 09, 2009 06:00 am)
From Pan's name we get the term panic, because following the Titans attack of Olympus, Pan claimed credit for the victory because he bragged to have inspired such chaos and disorder among the attackers that they fled in fear, which was his plan.

Niccolo was a Taurus too {the bull} and in the Chinese charts Taurus equates to the sign of the Snake {which we know is Machiavelli's smell}...well, that was an interesting find.  Taurus/Snake is equated with Prithvi, the element of earth.  Nicc's aura color is gray/dirty white, which is an "earth" color, but it's seemingly neutral -- as is Nicc's character at the moment.

I dunno, seems like a lot of dots loosely connected.  Hmmm...well, like I said previously, I'm not convinced that we can select an as yet unnamed Dark Elder based upon the character-driven personality of an individual.  It's fun to try though.

Oh, interesting that info from Pan, I didn't know it!

Incredible how in your research you related the signs of horoscopes and elements, you're a nice in those researches

What you said of Machiavelli's smell (snake) and the relation with the Chinese horoscope is really interesting, we know that everyone chooses the smell of his/her aura [at least, that's what I understand], I don't remember if in the Magician his reason for that smell was explained.

Yes, and the exact myth about Pan, was that during the Great Battle between the gods of Olympus, and the Titans of Othrys (I think), Pan fought along with the gods. When it seemed that the gods were going to lose, Pan loosened a sound, of pure fear, that struck the enemies with pure terror (where we get the word Panic). And by doing this, most of the Titan army fled, the rest killed by the gods.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad

#42 [url]

Jan 15 09 12:21 AM

Thinking about the snake that Josh came face to face with. It didn't strike him. I'm wondering if that will turn out to be that he has an affinity with them, even though he doesn't like them.
Often sun-worship and serpents are linked in mythologies.
I'm wondering if Josh trusts Niccolo more because of that, the sun/serpent connection; or this, in addition to Niccolo being more human than Dee, enhances that seeming trust.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
user posted image

Quote    Reply   

#43 [url]

Jan 16 09 12:12 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 15, 2009 12:21 am)
Thinking about the snake that Josh came face to face with. It didn't strike him. I'm wondering if that will turn out to be that he has an affinity with them, even though he doesn't like them.

Often sun-worship and serpents are linked in mythologies.

I'm wondering if Josh trusts Niccolo more because of that, the sun/serpent connection; or this, in addition to Niccolo being more human than Dee, enhances that seeming trust.

When I think of snakes/serpents, Hermes instantly comes to mind, Hermes was the greek god of travelers, thieves... and Hermes' symbol of power was a staff with two snakes that were entwined. I believe that it's now a symbol for medicine, because Hermes was also a god of medicine, but there was another minor god who was, I think it was Asclepius, what if Nicholas' condition makes them go to Asclepius, and maybe he's going to heal Nicholas, but on certian terms. As a minor god, Asclepius would be second generation, and maybe he'll heal Nicholas for help or something.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Michael Scott

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 12,225

#44 [url]

Jan 23 09 10:52 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 15, 2009 12:21 am)
Thinking about the snake that Josh came face to face with. It didn't strike him. I'm wondering if that will turn out to be that he has an affinity with them, even though he doesn't like them.
Often sun-worship and serpents are linked in mythologies.
I'm wondering if Josh trusts Niccolo more because of that, the sun/serpent connection; or this, in addition to Niccolo being more human than Dee, enhances that seeming trust.
Quote    Reply   

#45 [url]

Jan 25 09 8:27 PM

this is not really related to Niccolo but to dagon
im looking at gods and for some reason, dagon is the name of the chief god of the Philistines and it says that the Philistines came from Crete which i think was in Greek control
i wonder what else Michael has up his sleeves

Ní bhíonn saoi gan locht.
There's no wise man without fault

Quote    Reply   

#46 [url]

Jan 25 09 9:51 PM

QUOTE (Sam4B00ks @ January 25, 2009 08:27 pm)
this is not really related to Niccolo but to dagon
im looking at gods and for some reason, dagon is the name of the chief god of the Philistines and it says that the Philistines came from Crete which i think was in Greek control
i wonder what else Michael has up his sleeves

Interesting find Sam4books, I wonder what Michael's planning?

Quote    Reply   

#48 [url]

Jan 26 09 10:15 PM

To answer your question from another thread...

QUOTE (Sam4B00ks)
when does it say how old Niccolo is in the Magician?
It's in Ch. 1, pg. 6: He detested Dee and knew the feeling was mutual, but they both served the Dark Elders, and that meant they had been forced to work together down through the centuries. Machiavelli was also slightly envious that Dee was younger than he---and looked it. Machiavelli had been born in Florence in 1469, which made him fifty-eight years older than the English Magician. History recorded that he had died in the same year that Dee had been born, 1527.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
user posted image

Quote    Reply   

#49 [url]

Jan 27 09 8:06 AM

QUOTE
We know his elder is from greek mythology

Because his master spoke Greek, that doesn't mean he is from Greek mythology. All theimmortals in the books know heaps of languages. Perhaps that elder chose to speak Greek.
Also
QUOTE
And can we ascribe a current character's humani persona to identify the Elder that they serve?

I think we can. If I were an Elder, I would choose humani that suit my personality more. Less misunderstandings that way. But because we are talking of beings that are fro another race and time, the different beings will act differently, but that doesn't mean similarities can'texist. My point is that finding similarities between the Elder and the humani would be helpful, but you can't totaly rely on it.
As for Machiavelli, I think that he will try something that will risk his immortality, but with hope that his Elder doesn't find out. Something like give information to the Flamel and the twins about who to trust, what to do, without his Elder finding out. And then, if Flamel gets the Codex back, he will ask for the Philosopher's stone from Flamel and turn to he good side, when his immortality isn't at risk.

Cunning and deceit will every time serve a man better than force. Nicolo Machiavelli

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Michael Scott

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 12,225

#50 [url]

Jan 27 09 8:52 AM

QUOTE (Stavrdim @ January 27, 2009 08:06 am)
QUOTE
We know his elder is from greek mythology

Because his master spoke Greek, that doesn't mean he is from Greek mythology. All theimmortals in the books know heaps of languages. Perhaps that elder chose to speak Greek.
Also
QUOTE
And can we ascribe a current character's humani persona to identify the Elder that they serve?

I think we can. If I were an Elder, I would choose humani that suit my personality more. Less misunderstandings that way. But because we are talking of beings that are fro another race and time, the different beings will act differently, but that doesn't mean similarities can'texist. My point is that finding similarities between the Elder and the humani would be helpful, but you can't totaly rely on it.
As for Machiavelli, I think that he will try something that will risk his immortality, but with hope that his Elder doesn't find out. Something like give information to the Flamel and the twins about who to trust, what to do, without his Elder finding out. And then, if Flamel gets the Codex back, he will ask for the Philosopher's stone from Flamel and turn to he good side, when his immortality isn't at risk.

I think your point about the Elders speaking lots of languages is very important. Also, in the ancient world it was not uncommon to speak more than one language. There are more clues about the Elders in the next book, especially Dee's and Machiavelli's masters.

Michael

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

Godsryche

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 13,852

#51 [url]

Jan 27 09 1:03 PM

QUOTE (Michael Scott @ January 27, 2009 04:52 am)
especially Dee's and Machiavelli's masters.

Michael

Assuming, of course, that they are in fact two different Elders...

user posted image
I hear your hopes, I feel your dreams, and in the dark I hear your screams.

Aura: Blood Red
Scent: Freshly Struck Flint

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Spacecadet

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 17,429

#52 [url]

Jan 27 09 1:19 PM

QUOTE (Stavrdim @ January 27, 2009 02:06 am)

QUOTE
And can we ascribe a current character's humani persona to identify the Elder that they serve?


I think we can. If I were an Elder, I would choose humani that suit my personality more. Less misunderstandings that way. But because we are talking of beings that are fro another race and time, the different beings will act differently, but that doesn't mean similarities can'texist. My point is that finding similarities between the Elder and the humani would be helpful, but you can't totaly rely on it.

As for Machiavelli, I think that he will try something that will risk his immortality, but with hope that his Elder doesn't find out. Something like give information to the Flamel and the twins about who to trust, what to do, without his Elder finding out. And then, if Flamel gets the Codex back, he will ask for the Philosopher's stone from Flamel and turn to he good side, when his immortality isn't at risk.

I dunno i tend to think an elder would pick someone with the personality most likely to do their bidding, and not cause too much trouble. I also think an elder would choose someone they thought they could control fairly easily. Thus again stating that both dee's and machiavelli's elders are very powerful (if they are in fact different elders.)

Quote    Reply   

#53 [url]

Jan 27 09 5:22 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet)
I dunno i tend to think an elder would pick someone with the personality most likely to do their bidding, and not cause too much trouble. I also think an elder would choose someone they thought they could control fairly easily. Thus again stating that both dee's and machiavelli's elders are very powerful (if they are in fact different elders.)
I agree, the Elders/Dark Elders have human servants that they believe are 'unquestioningly' loyal to them. The problem being is that the humans {at times} believe they are equally important to their Masters, and they're not. Poor fool, Senuhet. I think Machiavelli will push bounderies but not openly display anything that could be construed as disloyalty. Dee, I think, has certainly shed his humanity but he's only loyal because he has to be. Does his Elder know that? I think that his particular Dark Elder would know every 'trick' in the book, which says to me he expects some covert and overt acts but will let them slide until he's got the book in order to perform the Final Summoning...and then, watch out.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
user posted image

Quote    Reply   

#54 [url]

Jan 28 09 9:43 AM

QUOTE
dunno i tend to think an elder would pick someone with the personality most likely to do their bidding, and not cause too much trouble. I also think an elder would choose someone they thought they could control fairly easily.


Exactly what I am talking about. If your Elder told you to do something exactly different from what you believe, you would still do it, but be reluctant about and so push the limits.

Cunning and deceit will every time serve a man better than force. Nicolo Machiavelli

Quote    Reply   

#55 [url]

Jan 28 09 5:38 PM

QUOTE (Stavrdim @ January 28, 2009 09:43 am)
QUOTE
dunno i tend to think an elder would pick someone with the personality most likely to do their bidding, and not cause too much trouble. I also think an elder would choose someone they thought they could control fairly easily.


Exactly what I am talking about. If your Elder told you to do something exactly different from what you believe, you would still do it, but be reluctant about and so push the limits.

I also agree, one way to think of it would be, you obey your elder, or you die.
Think about it, if you stand up for what you believe in, you die.
If you obey them, you live.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Spacecadet

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 17,429

#56 [url]

Jan 28 09 5:46 PM

QUOTE (Ectw101 @ January 28, 2009 11:38 am)
QUOTE (Stavrdim @ January 28, 2009 09:43 am)
QUOTE
dunno i tend to think an elder would pick someone with the personality most likely to do their bidding, and not cause too much trouble. I also think an elder would choose someone they thought they could control fairly easily.


Exactly what I am talking about. If your Elder told you to do something exactly different from what you believe, you would still do it, but be reluctant about and so push the limits.

I also agree, one way to think of it would be, you obey your elder, or you die.
Think about it, if you stand up for what you believe in, you die.
If you obey them, you live.

yes but it takes a certain type of person to see that result and stil go for whats right despite the consequences, the question is... is machiavelli the type of person to do whats right regardless of the consequences or is his life more important to him.

Quote    Reply   

#57 [url]

Jan 28 09 5:52 PM

Which is a good question. As for obeying = living, no I gotta disagree. Senuhet shared his Elder's views, he obeyed her every command and whim, he fully participated on the attack of Hekate's Shadowrealm and when it came down to it he was as disposable as a used tissue. Bastet didn't blink an eye or shed a tear at this loyal servant's death.
-----While immortality would seem to be the way to garner 100% obeyance, it doesn't. We see Machiavelli and Dee fully discussing the possibility of controlling the twins, which would be in flagrant violation of loyalty to both of the Dark Elders. I say both, because I believe Mach's Elder is one of the First Generation while Dee's is one of the Great Elders that supposedly did not survive the fall of Danu Talis.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
user posted image

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Spacecadet

Next Generation Elder

Posts: 17,429

#58 [url]

Jan 28 09 6:48 PM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 28, 2009 11:52 am)
Which is a good question.  As for obeying = living, no I gotta disagree.  Senuhet shared his Elder's views, he obeyed her every command and whim, he fully participated on the attack of Hekate's Shadowrealm and when it came down to it he was as disposable as a used tissue.  Bastet didn't blink an eye or shed a tear at this loyal servant's death.

Well and i think thats the point, the people that realize that life and immortality isnt a guarantee from an elder even if they do their bidding, is likely to realize they have two options, outsmart their elder which is most likely what dee is trying to do, or die for what they think is right which is what i think machiavelli will possibly do.

Quote    Reply   

#59 [url]

Jan 28 09 7:20 PM

Oh, I agree, Spacecadet. Machiavelli, being the tactician that he is, isn't simply going to blithely obey, never question. That's not his nature to begin with and we got to see that in spades. He'll do as he's told, yes, but he'll also work all the angles and likely will wind up with his immortality removed for his cheek.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
user posted image

Quote    Reply   

#60 [url]

Feb 5 09 4:03 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 28, 2009 07:20 pm)
Oh, I agree, Spacecadet. Machiavelli, being the tactician that he is, isn't simply going to blithely obey, never question. That's not his nature to begin with and we got to see that in spades. He'll do as he's told, yes, but he'll also work all the angles and likely will wind up with his immortality removed for his cheek.

Which explains why Mars said that he'd trust Dee because Machiavelli's intentions are unclear.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

Aura Color: Orange
Aura Scent: Clementines

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help