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dreamingofedward

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Nov 10 08 7:38 PM

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I think it won't be necessary to take out Machievelli. I think he will redeem himself in time so as to not need to be taken out - unless he is then taken out by one of the bad guys because he flips. I think the fact that Mars was unclear what his motivation/intent was is a hint as to that.

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Godsryche

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Nov 10 08 8:25 PM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 10, 2008 04:10 pm)
I agree! I think he'll intervene to save one of the bad guys and take death blow in their place.... poetic! lol

*cough*snape*cough*

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Spacecadet

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Nov 10 08 8:27 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ November 10, 2008 02:25 pm)
QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 10, 2008 04:10 pm)
I agree!  I think he'll intervene to save one of the bad guys and take death blow in their place....  poetic! lol

*cough*snape*cough*

Exactly my thoughts.....I think i mentioned snape like behaviour somewhere.....

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Nov 10 08 8:42 PM

Machevelli may go good but it will only be if that Dagon creature stays around to tell him the truth about the dark elders. So if Scatty kills Dagon it looks like we still have evil Machevelli.

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dreamingofedward

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Nov 10 08 8:43 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ November 10, 2008 04:25 pm)
QUOTE (hitmanjls @ November 10, 2008 04:10 pm)
I agree!  I think he'll intervene to save one of the bad guys and take death blow in their place....  poetic! lol

*cough*snape*cough*

Ahhh... but with a key difference. Snape didn't really do it because he decided to be a good guy - he continued to act selfishly in that it was still all about his love for Lilly - where as here, I actually think that Machievelli will see the merits of being good for on the merits of it alone - without the selfish motivation that drove Snape pretty much to the end.

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Godsryche

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Nov 10 08 9:00 PM

I don't think he'll turn around anyways.

I think he harbors too much contempt for (who we think are) the good guys.

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Nov 11 08 6:11 PM

well i have already said it in a post somewhere that i get the feeling that machiavelli is going to turn out to be good, for the very reason mentioned by dreamingofedward....especially hes gonna take it out on dee....

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dreamingofedward

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Nov 11 08 6:26 PM

There was also an interesting revelation by Michael in the interview (the latest that Zeph posted a link to, latest as of 11/11 anyway) that I expect will give us more insight to Machiavelli. Michael tells the interviewer that there is a poignant scene in the Sorceress where Machiavelli ponders the death of his wife and the price of immortality. I think that is the sort of thing that will be seen in the redemption of Machievelli - or at least his attempt to redeem himself - since any attempt could be met with the revocation of his immortality, and therefore remain just that, an unfulfilled attempt. Let's face it, I don't think any character with Dee's motivations would ever stop to ponder the price of immortality and the death of a loved one.

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Spacecadet

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Nov 11 08 6:29 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ November 11, 2008 12:26 pm)
There was also an interesting revelation by Michael in the interview that I expect will give us more insight to Machiavelli. Michael tells the interviewer that there is a poignant scene in the Sorceress where Machiavelli ponders the death of his wife and the price of immortality. I think that is the sort of thing that will be seen in the redemption of Machievelli - or at least his attempt to redeem himself - since any attempt could be met with the revocation of his immortality, and therefore remain just that, an unfulfilled attempt. Let's face it, I don't think any character with Dee's motivations would ever stop to ponder the price of immortality and the death of a loved one.

I couldnt agree with you more. And the fact that he has lost his wife and feels pain over it, is probably a reasonable explanation for why he is doing evil things now but ultimately has the ability to feel remorse and regret and those feelings will help him redeem himself later.

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#11 [url]

Nov 17 08 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Vinterulv @ November 10, 2008 08:42 pm)
Machevelli may go good but it will only be if that Dagon creature stays around to tell him the truth about the dark elders. So if Scatty kills Dagon it looks like we still have evil Machevelli.

Totally agree with you.

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#12 [url]

Nov 18 08 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Vinterulv @ November 10, 2008 08:42 pm)
Machevelli may go good but it will only be if that Dagon creature stays around to tell him the truth about the dark elders. So if Scatty kills Dagon it looks like we still have evil Machevelli.

And may i ask what the truth is about of the dark elders that you are talking about, that machiavelli doesn't know? Because i think he knows everything about them....

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#13 [url]

Nov 18 08 10:26 PM

Remember in the Magician when Dee, Dagon and Machiavelli are in the car staking out Germain's house? Well Dagon tells both Dee and Machiavelli that the elders kept Nidhogg alive as a weapon because there were "others" here when the elders first came. It got a shocked reaction from both Dee and Machiavelli. It could be the were creatures like Torc Madra or Torc Allta mentioned in the Alchemyst except that Dee knew about them when he fought them during his invasion of Hecate's shadow realm. Meaning that even before them there were others. Plus the were creatures or Torc creatures all loved the elders. This previous people did not love the elders. So this opens up quite a lot.

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#14 [url]

Nov 19 08 5:02 PM

QUOTE (Vinterulv @ November 18, 2008 10:26 pm)
Remember in the Magician when Dee, Dagon and Machiavelli are in the car staking out Germain's house? Well Dagon tells both Dee and Machiavelli that the elders kept Nidhogg alive as a weapon because there were "others" here when the elders first came. It got a shocked reaction from both Dee and Machiavelli. It could be the were creatures like Torc Madra or Torc Allta mentioned in the Alchemyst except that Dee knew about them when he fought them during his invasion of Hecate's shadow realm. Meaning that even before them there were others. Plus the were creatures or Torc creatures all loved the elders. This previous people did not love the elders. So this opens up quite a lot.

well, look at it in this way....dee is collecting many monsters, so it is very possible he knows about it that elders have creatures for protection....especially, if they are particularily, related to one kind of creatures, like the morrigan is to the crows, and bastet to the cats....

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#17 [url]

Nov 28 08 4:57 AM

I have a question about the pronounceation of the last name.

Is it Match-a-velli or Mack-a-velli?

I heard someone say it like matchiavellia but I take Italian in school and CH ussually is pronounced like a CK.

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#18 [url]

Nov 29 08 4:21 AM

QUOTE (Vinterulv @ November 27, 2008 10:57 pm)
I have a question about the pronounceation of the last name.

Is it Match-a-velli or Mack-a-velli?

I heard someone say it like matchiavellia but I take Italian in school and CH ussually is pronounced like a CK.

In the audiobook it is pronounced Mah-key-ah-vell-ee

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Zephfire

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#19 [url]

Dec 5 08 6:55 AM

I think we have a lot more to discover about Mr Machiavelli..

QUOTE (The Magician)

"Let me guess," Josh said, "that must be Niccolo Machiavelli."
"The most dangerous immortal in Europe," the Alchemyst said grimly.
"Trust me: this man makes Dee look like an amateur.".


What do you think?

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Spacecadet

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#20 [url]

Dec 5 08 1:32 PM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ December 05, 2008 12:55 am)
I think we have a lot more to discover about Mr Machiavelli..
QUOTE (The Magician)

"Let me guess," Josh said, "that must be Niccolo Machiavelli."
"The most dangerous immortal in Europe," the Alchemyst said grimly.
"Trust me: this man makes Dee look like an amateur.".


What do you think?

I definately think there is more to come from Machiavelli, and i also think Dee underestimates his abilities, and is a little to arrogant when it comes to machiavelli. I think machiavelli is biding his time and letting Dee think he's in control. When the right moment arises machiavelli will strike.

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