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#561 [url]

Aug 7 12 6:10 AM

Nope- probably not. Sara and Richard were just a fraction of the whole of Isis and Osiris- which are probably not their actual names. On a different point, considering their natural Earthlord forms, could dragons and the like actually be degenerated descendants of the Earthlords or Earthlords post-Change?

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#562 [url]

Aug 7 12 1:01 PM

QUOTE (Birdguy)
Man,i wonder how the Twins felt when they realize the truth about Isis and Osiris,I mean,they just discover that their parentes never really loved then,and that they just wanted to use them,
Or maybe it´s possible that Isis and Osiris wasn´t Richard and Sara Newman,they could just assum the form of the twins parents to manipulate them?

There is a part at the end of The Enchantress where it was mentioned Sophie and Josh's true origins. Richard and Sara are the false names that Osiris and Isis used so that they would appear normal to Sophie and Josh, until they became ready to learn their true natures. It works pretty much like Nicholas and Perenelle's fake names Nick and Perry Fleming.

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#563 [url]

Aug 7 12 5:20 PM

QUOTE (Nurmengard @ August 07, 2012 01:01 pm)
QUOTE (Birdguy)
Man,i wonder how the Twins felt when they realize the truth about Isis and Osiris,I mean,they just discover that their parentes never really loved then,and that they just wanted to use them,
Or maybe it´s possible that Isis and Osiris wasn´t Richard and Sara Newman,they could just assum the form of the twins parents to manipulate them?

There is a part at the end of The Enchantress where it was mentioned Sophie and Josh's true origins. Richard and Sara are the false names that Osiris and Isis used so that they would appear normal to Sophie and Josh, until they became ready to learn their true natures. It works pretty much like Nicholas and Perenelle's fake names Nick and Perry Fleming.

i see.

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Calliope

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#564 [url]

Aug 23 12 2:54 PM

Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

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Spacecadet

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#565 [url]

Aug 23 12 5:31 PM

QUOTE (Calliope @ August 23, 2012 09:54 am)
Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

Actually I think Isis and Osiris might have the least linear timeline. At some point they went back in time and retrieved josh and sophie and i think they were living in the future raising them but also securing their place on danu talis hoping the twins would one day rule and prevent its fall. I think Isis and Osiris probably live outside the timeline.

characters like the witch and mars and niten and prometheus all have more linear timelines even though we see them both in the future and the past, they never travel through time they live beginning to end as time passes from before the fall, to the fall to present day.

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hippogriff

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#566 [url]

Aug 23 12 9:25 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 23, 2012 05:31 pm)
QUOTE (Calliope @ August 23, 2012 09:54 am)
Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

Actually I think Isis and Osiris might have the least linear timeline. At some point they went back in time and retrieved josh and sophie and i think they were living in the future raising them but also securing their place on danu talis hoping the twins would one day rule and prevent its fall. I think Isis and Osiris probably live outside the timeline.

characters like the witch and mars and niten and prometheus all have more linear timelines even though we see them both in the future and the past, they never travel through time they live beginning to end as time passes from before the fall, to the fall to present day.

Yes, I agree that Isis and osiris probably live outside the timeline.

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merlin67

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#567 [url]

Aug 23 12 11:32 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 24, 2012 01:31 am)
QUOTE (Calliope @ August 23, 2012 09:54 am)
Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

Actually I think Isis and Osiris might have the least linear timeline. At some point they went back in time and retrieved josh and sophie and i think they were living in the future raising them but also securing their place on danu talis hoping the twins would one day rule and prevent its fall. I think Isis and Osiris probably live outside the timeline.

characters like the witch and mars and niten and prometheus all have more linear timelines even though we see them both in the future and the past, they never travel through time they live beginning to end as time passes from before the fall, to the fall to present day.

why niten

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hippogriff

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#568 [url]

Aug 23 12 11:40 PM

QUOTE (merlin67 @ August 23, 2012 11:32 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 24, 2012 01:31 am)
QUOTE (Calliope @ August 23, 2012 09:54 am)
Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

Actually I think Isis and Osiris might have the least linear timeline. At some point they went back in time and retrieved josh and sophie and i think they were living in the future raising them but also securing their place on danu talis hoping the twins would one day rule and prevent its fall. I think Isis and Osiris probably live outside the timeline.

characters like the witch and mars and niten and prometheus all have more linear timelines even though we see them both in the future and the past, they never travel through time they live beginning to end as time passes from before the fall, to the fall to present day.

why niten

Probably just an error. Though I could be wrong, and i frequently am.

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#569 [url]

Aug 24 12 4:35 AM

I don't get it. So its a cycle. Josh combines the swords and becomes marethyu but there is a marethyu before that, So he must have done all that the new josh did. Its an infinite loop.

What I don't get is.

Josh kills Isis and Osiris. Yet the history remains like they survived the fall of danu talis. If Isis and Osiris die then. Marethyu will never become. Becuase dee will not be immortal. If one thing messes up it all falls down even on thing.

So how are Isis and Osiris alive in the future and die in the past?

Did that make sense to any of you?

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Spacecadet

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#570 [url]

Aug 24 12 3:36 PM

QUOTE (merlin67 @ August 23, 2012 06:32 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 24, 2012 01:31 am)
QUOTE (Calliope @ August 23, 2012 09:54 am)
Except that with Nick and Perry, that's their names, whereas with Isis and Osiris, their pseudonyms were similar in etymological meaning and were exactly the same length as their aliases.

Yeah, the whole travelling back in time to save the future thing confuses me too, but I think because we we're following the twins' (and others) story, and because they were directly involved in saving the future, it could only be them who knew about what had happened. Isis and Osiris' timeline runs with linearity, whereas pretty much everyone elses loops back over itself before continuing forwards again. It has something to do with philosphy rather than time, I think.

Actually I think Isis and Osiris might have the least linear timeline. At some point they went back in time and retrieved josh and sophie and i think they were living in the future raising them but also securing their place on danu talis hoping the twins would one day rule and prevent its fall. I think Isis and Osiris probably live outside the timeline.

characters like the witch and mars and niten and prometheus all have more linear timelines even though we see them both in the future and the past, they never travel through time they live beginning to end as time passes from before the fall, to the fall to present day.

why niten

because unlike scatty, joan, germain etc niten did not go back in time in the scope of the series. Similarly neither did billy, or machiavelli.

QUOTE (Francis De Saint Germain 09)
I don't get it. So its a cycle. Josh combines the swords and becomes marethyu but there is a marethyu before that, So he must have done all that the new josh did. Its an infinite loop.

What I don't get is.

Josh kills Isis and Osiris. Yet the history remains like they survived the fall of danu talis. If Isis and Osiris die then. Marethyu will never become. Becuase dee will not be immortal. If one thing messes up it all falls down even on thing.

So how are Isis and Osiris alive in the future and die in the past?

Did that make sense to any of you?


I think that depends on which theory of time travel you are subscribing to, the self fulfilling prophecy or the changing timelines. In this case I think it's the changing timelines because we are talking about multiple strands of time. so from the point josh killed isis and osiris things shot off into a new timeline, but someone like marethyu lives outside the timelines so I think he could move into a strand where they still existed. And i think the death of isis and osiris means that from that point forward they can't changes things in any timeline past present or future.

But that's just my interpretation. Time travel is tricky so hopefully I didn't confuse things too much.

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hippogriff

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#571 [url]

Aug 24 12 9:59 PM

QUOTE (Francis De Saint Germain 09 @ August 24, 2012 04:35 am)
I don't get it. So its a cycle. Josh combines the swords and becomes marethyu but there is a marethyu before that, So he must have done all that the new josh did. Its an infinite loop.

What I don't get is.

Josh kills Isis and Osiris. Yet the history remains like they survived the fall of danu talis. If Isis and Osiris die then. Marethyu will never become. Becuase dee will not be immortal. If one thing messes up it all falls down even on thing.

So how are Isis and Osiris alive in the future and die in the past?

Did that make sense to any of you?

Here is what I think. I agree with most theories, however if we are going with the timetravel thing, then perhaps Isis and Osiris were not on Danu Talis at the fall, and afterwards they managed to acheive a state of existance outside of the time stream, like Marethyu does. After this, they attempt to raise Sophie and Josh for their scheme, and return to Danu Talis to do this. Then, the advanced outside of time stream isis and Osiris are killed by Josh Newman, and by combining the swords, he becomes Marethyu, one of the most powerful beings in the universe, literally one with the magic of Aether, or time. If you follow this theory, the pre-outside-of-time-stream isis and osiris are still alive. by furthering this theory, this Isis and Osiris are living in hiding, and are not known by the Elders. It is only later, after they achieve existance outside of the time stream, that they move part of their existance to Danu Talis, where they build up a reputation as Aten and Anubis's uncle, one which they had not had in their original forms, when they were stuck to the timestream.
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#572 [url]

Aug 25 12 12:15 AM

I think the time line, the present one, used in the book is the remaining time line where Isis and Osiris are still alive. All the other time lines has been tampered by Marethyu. And so, to completely stop the scheme of Isis and Osiris, Marethyu came to the present time line where he found Nick and Perry and all the others and does use them as aids to stop Isis and Osiris by telling them (in the case of Nick and Perry) that they will be a part of something very important and brought them back to past Danu Talis.

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#573 [url]

Aug 25 12 12:37 AM

But if Isis and Osiris die then Dee will have never been immortal. And many things would fall apart.

Everybody has their role to play. Even Gollum in lord of the rings.

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#574 [url]

Aug 25 12 1:07 AM

In the books, we where taught that some decisions don't affect the existence in its entirety, in The Alchemyst, the Witch mentions several outcomes in the battle on the World Tree, but none of this outcomes will stop the twins from fulfilling their destiny. It's only in the Auspicious Threads when a decision can cause an effect to the entire history.

The Fall of Danu Talis is in one such thread, so everything that happened there affected time. Isis mentioned coming from the timeline when the twins fought, which is also the original Marethyu's timeline, by changing the course of events, Isis, Osiris and Marethyu stopped existing, but other versions of them are still existing. Josh becomes The Destroyer of Worlds while the Isis and Osiris of this timeline are alive to make Dee immortal.

In my opinion, Isis and Osiris always planned to return to Danu Talis at the time of The Fall at some point in the future, so their past selves left Danu Talis to be replaced by their future versions while they looked for the twins. Since the last time the Elders saw them, they probably thought they actually escaped the Fall. So everything is in place again, trapped like that in the infinite loop of destiny.

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hippogriff

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#575 [url]

Aug 25 12 1:23 AM

QUOTE (AlchemistMaster @ August 25, 2012 01:07 am)
In the books, we where taught that some decisions don't affect the existence in its entirety, in The Alchemyst, the Witch mentions several outcomes in the battle on the World Tree, but none of this outcomes will stop the twins from fulfilling their destiny. It's only in the Auspicious Threads when a decision can cause an effect to the entire history.

The Fall of Danu Talis is in one such thread, so everything that happened there affected time. Isis mentioned coming from the timeline when the twins fought, which is also the original Marethyu's timeline, by changing the course of events, Isis, Osiris and Marethyu stopped existing, but other versions of them are still existing. Josh becomes The Destroyer of Worlds while the Isis and Osiris of this timeline are alive to make Dee immortal.

In my opinion, Isis and Osiris always planned to return to Danu Talis at the time of The Fall at some point in the future, so their past selves left Danu Talis to be replaced by their future versions while they looked for the twins. Since the last time the Elders saw them, they probably thought they actually escaped the Fall. So everything is in place again, trapped like that in the infinite loop of destiny.

Yes, that makes sense.

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