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Zephfire

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Jun 1 10 7:13 AM

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Well we were treated to a glimpse of these two in the opening teaser chapter of The Warlock, what are your thoughts on this pair..and what is their connection to Mars and the Witch of Endor?
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#1 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:39 PM

I only know that things are going to get interesting around them.

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Godsryche

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#3 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:17 PM

Here's what I think about these two -

I think they are Dee's Elder(s).

I've never really trusted the witch from the get go, and the Dark Elder's plan is to release the monsters on Alcatraz and the other holding areas at the same time, let them run amok for a while, and then come to the rescue of the humani, get on their good graces, then enslave them. So I think that this is what they need Mars for, they want him to be the Savior of the humani after they release the monsters.

Osiris and Isis need Dora to release the curse she put on him.

So I still don't really know what to think about Dora, as far as who's side she's on. Osiris and Isis could be pressuring her in some way to release the curse on Mars, or she could be working for them and against Flamel, and, as I said before, I haven't trusted her very much at all since the start.

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Spacecadet

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#4 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:23 PM

In just the one chapter we got of these two I found them very very interesting. They are twins in mythology, and sometimes also husband and wife, but considering the context of the series id imagine we will see the twin aspect.

There are so many links here, Isis/Osiris are known to be horus's parents (aka mars) so im not sure how that fits in with the twin aspect but for the sake of the series atleast one is a parent to mars and by relation bastet as well.

There is also the interesting bit that isis and osiris are two of four, including Set and Nephthys. which to me parallels the swords, twin swords excalibur and clarent a pair, that are 2 of 4. (but that may be taking things too far)


They both have blue eyes like sophie and josh.

And I found this bit the most interesting

QUOTE (Chapter 1 The Warlock)
"But look at what they’ve done to you,” Isis said, obviously distressed, her eyes filling with silver tears.


as we've seen sophie cry silver tears and gilgamesh mentioned at the end of the sorceress he saw a girl cry silver tears around the time of the fall.

So I wonder if Isis and Osiris are the original twins or at the very least if they are related to them in some way. i wonder if gold/silver auras are hereditary....

And I agree with Godsryche, I too believe they are dee's elder. Based on this bit

QUOTE
“No, Dee has told us nothing. He has betrayed you. He has betrayed all of us,” Osiris said. He was standing behind Mars, examining in almost minute detail the statues of the satyrs.


and

QUOTE
Osiris rapped on the Elder’s back with his knuckle. Sparks crackled. “We believe he wanted to loose her onto that Shadow - realm. We have declared Dee utlaga for his many failures.
Now he seeks revenge, and his vengeance will destroy all the Shadowrealms and ultimately this world. His madness will destroy us all.”
Isis and Osiris had walked full circle around the Elder and now stood facing him again. “But by following his stink, we were able to track him here . . . to you,” Isis said.

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#5 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:47 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ June 01, 2010 06:23 pm)
In just the one chapter we got of these two I found them very very interesting. They are twins in mythology, and sometimes also husband and wife, but considering the context of the series id imagine we will see the twin aspect.

There are so many links here, Isis/Osiris are known to be horus's parents (aka mars) so im not sure how that fits in with the twin aspect but for the sake of the series atleast one is a parent to mars and by relation bastet as well.

There is also the interesting bit that isis and osiris are two of four, including Set and Nephthys. which to me parallels the swords, twin swords excalibur and clarent a pair, that are 2 of 4. (but that may be taking things too far)


They both have blue eyes like sophie and josh.

And I found this bit the most interesting
QUOTE (Chapter 1 The Warlock)
"But look at what they’ve done to you,” Isis said, obviously distressed, her eyes filling with silver tears.


as we've seen sophie cry silver tears and gilgamesh mentioned at the end of the sorceress he saw a girl cry silver tears around the time of the fall.

So I wonder if Isis and Osiris are the original twins or at the very least if they are related to them in some way. i wonder if gold/silver auras are hereditary....

And I agree with Godsryche, I too believe they are dee's elder. Based on this bit

QUOTE
“No, Dee has told us nothing. He has betrayed you. He has betrayed all of us,” Osiris said. He was standing behind Mars, examining in almost minute detail the statues of the satyrs.


and

QUOTE
Osiris rapped on the Elder’s back with his knuckle. Sparks crackled. “We believe he wanted to loose her onto that Shadow - realm. We have declared Dee utlaga for his many failures.
Now he seeks revenge, and his vengeance will destroy all the Shadowrealms and ultimately this world. His madness will destroy us all.”
Isis and Osiris had walked full circle around the Elder and now stood facing him again. “But by following his stink, we were able to track him here . . . to you,” Isis said.

they said that they declared dee utlaga so i guess they are dark elders but not dees master because scott said we learn who he is in the end of book 5.

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#6 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:52 PM

Just as an opposing view... When Isis and Osiris said "They" the reference could be referring to the Dark Elders as a group not them personally. I emphasize the word could though, nothing definite.

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Godsryche

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#7 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:53 PM

QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 01:47 pm)
they said that they declared dee utlaga so i guess they are dark elders but not dees master because scott said we learn who he is in the end of book 5.

I don't believe we were told that specifically. I don't think we've been told anything about when we would find out or if we have already met his Elder.

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#8 [url]

Jun 1 10 5:56 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ June 01, 2010 06:53 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 01:47 pm)
they said that they declared dee utlaga so i guess they are dark elders but not dees master because scott said we learn who he is in the end of book 5.

I don't believe we were told that specifically. I don't think we've been told anything about when we would find out or if we have already met his Elder.

yes we were i remember it clearly in the podcast when scott came to talk and they asked him when we would meet dee and mach's elder he said we will know about in the necromancer and dee's in the end of book 5.

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Zephfire

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#9 [url]

Jun 1 10 6:06 PM

QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 06:56 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ June 01, 2010 06:53 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 01:47 pm)
they said that they declared dee utlaga so i guess they are dark elders but not dees master because scott said we learn who he is in the end of book 5.

I don't believe we were told that specifically. I don't think we've been told anything about when we would find out or if we have already met his Elder.

yes we were i remember it clearly in the podcast when scott came to talk and they asked him when we would meet dee and mach's elder he said we will know about in the necromancer and dee's in the end of book 5.

Ah there's a little key word missing there... two letters that make all the difference, it was that we'd learn who they were by the end of book 5.

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#10 [url]

Jun 1 10 6:35 PM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ June 01, 2010 07:06 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 06:56 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ June 01, 2010 06:53 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 01:47 pm)
they said that they declared dee utlaga so i guess they are dark elders but not dees master because scott said we learn who he is in the end of book 5.

I don't believe we were told that specifically. I don't think we've been told anything about when we would find out or if we have already met his Elder.

yes we were i remember it clearly in the podcast when scott came to talk and they asked him when we would meet dee and mach's elder he said we will know about in the necromancer and dee's in the end of book 5.

Ah there's a little key word missing there... two letters that make all the difference, it was that we'd learn who they were by the end of book 5.

and just who is they t thought he only had one. you know what ill look at it again.

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Zephfire

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#11 [url]

Jun 1 10 6:38 PM

QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 07:35 pm)
and just who is they t thought he only had one. you know what ill look at it again.

I only used they because the thread title is Isis and Osiris, don't read anything into my post although...it was also never said that Dee has only one master.... flamelssecret/evillaugh smiley.gif

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#12 [url]

Jun 1 10 6:47 PM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ June 01, 2010 07:38 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 07:35 pm)
and just who is they t thought he only had one. you know what ill look at it again.

I only used they because the thread title is Isis and Osiris, don't read anything into my post although...it was also never said that Dee has only one master.... flamelssecret/evillaugh smiley.gif

you know what belive what you want idk care and im not going to waste my time looking in the book were it says he does only have one master or arguing about something that nether of us could be rigth .

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Godsryche

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#13 [url]

Jun 1 10 6:59 PM

QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 02:47 pm)
QUOTE (Zephfire @ June 01, 2010 07:38 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 07:35 pm)
and just who is they t thought he only had one. you know what ill look at it again.

I only used they because the thread title is Isis and Osiris, don't read anything into my post although...it was also never said that Dee has only one master.... flamelssecret/evillaugh smiley.gif

you know what belive what you want idk care and im not going to waste my time looking in the book were it says he does only have one master or arguing about something that nether of us could be rigth .

There are several instances in the books where people refer to it as "Dee's Masters"

QUOTE (Nicholas' Day Booke - Necromancer)
...I know that his masters will not tolerate failure on this scale...


QUOTE (Dee - Necromancer pg 40)
In the aftermath of his failure, he had no doubts that his sentence had been handed down and that his Dark Elder masters were making sure he would not be able to hide in even the most distant Shadowrealm.


QUOTE (Necromancer pg 41)
Dee shuddered. He knew his masters wanted him alive so they could remove his immortality, watch him age before their eyes, and then make him immortal again.


QUOTE (Machiavelli - Necromancer pg 41)
“Exactly. Doctor, it is time for you to run, to hide. Your masters have declared you utlaga.”


There are numerous others between all the books as well.

And to keep this on topic - I believe the "masters" are referring to Osiris and Isis, also because of the fact that Dee's Elder(s) speak with a Male and Female voice.

And also, on the point of "Learning who his Master is by the end of book 5" doesn't say anything about when we meet them. Example...We met The Necromancer at the start of Book 1 but didn't learn his identity until the end of Book 4. So we could easily "meet" Dee's Elders at the start of book 5, but not find out for a fact they are his Elders until the end of the book.

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8025364

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#14 [url]

Jun 1 10 7:31 PM

That is an interesting theory to consider about Isis and Osiris. It is referenced constantly about Dee's "masters". I wonder is it safe to assume that they are Dark Elders and the use of "we" as in having declared Dee utlaga. If they, Dee's masters or master, are two people or two in one is the pressing question as it has been since the beginning. But we'll see. It is interesting also that the Witch has brought them to the Catacombs from the island shadowrealm. I look forward to seeing what relationship they have in the series, brother and sister or husband and wife. Also Mars being Horus, is in some incarnations their son, I think.

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#15 [url]

Jun 2 10 3:40 AM

Masters. Hmmm. Do we know any elders with multiple personalities? other than the Morrigan I mean.

If Isis and Osiris are the original twins, and if Sophie and Josh have the same DNA, then...

flamelssecret/jawdrop.gif

JOSH IS GONNA BE BALD!!!


I didn't remember that they're Mars' parents, thank you for pointing that out. Maybe Mars will be a good guy in the end.

Aura: Holly Green ...... Scent:Metallic...... Elemental Magic:Thought
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It is fantasy that puts us apart from the beasts. Anyone can say what is. Few can say what if.

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#16 [url]

Jun 2 10 5:06 PM

I don't believe that Isis and Osiris are Dee's elders. Their mythology gives them no reason to be evil, but I still wouldn't think they were either way.

Isis and Osiris were 2 of 4 children: Osiris, Seth, Isis, and Nephthys. Since gods could only marry goddesses, Osiris married Isis and Seth married Nephthys. Osiris and Isis, brother and sister and husband and wife are Horus' parents, and Horus also known as Mars, as we know through Bastet, is her 'baby brother'.
(Just wrote a submission on them, for a chance at a gold/silver/black aura. )

I am uncertain as to how Bastet and Horus were related in mythology, but that is how it is in the books.

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#17 [url]

Jun 2 10 9:02 PM

I dont think that Isis and Osiris are dark or evil, just because they were wearing white, and white usually symbolises good, and Isis sounded so concerend and it doesnt seem like a Dark Elder would show emotion like that.

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8025364

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#18 [url]

Jun 2 10 9:43 PM

Well, the Dark Elders as they are called have declared Dee utlaga and these two say they have labeled him as such. Every Elder in the Shadowrealms or not are probably aware of Dee's betrayal. They might be Dark Elders, I don't think wearing white has anything to do with it and Mars apparently is there friend. The Elders have friends amongst their kind, look at Odin wanting to revenge Dare's deceased master, his friend or the Feathered Serpent and his relationship with Aten. I don't think they share the same feeling with their immortal humani servants. But we'll see about Isis and Osiris.

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#19 [url]

Jun 3 10 12:16 AM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ June 01, 2010 06:38 pm)
QUOTE (ruling archon @ June 01, 2010 07:35 pm)
and just who is they t thought he only had one. you know what ill look at it again.

I only used they because the thread title is Isis and Osiris, don't read anything into my post although...it was also never said that Dee has only one master.... flamelssecret/evillaugh smiley.gif


I doubt Dee would serve any more Elders than he had to, the more Elders he serves, the more chances he would have to fail and be killed by his master.

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#20 [url]

Jun 3 10 1:29 AM

ok so i read the teaser chapter and im really confused Isis And Osiris are dark elders because they say

QUOTE
We have declared Dee utlaga for his many failures.
but the which (who is good?) is working with them...... flamelssecret/sFun_explosive.gif

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