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Zephfire

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Jun 1 10 2:48 AM

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Here you go members, please keep the majority of The Necromancer discussion here until August!

If you have not read The Necromancer, you are warned.. this topic will contain **SPOILERS**


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Enter at your own peril if you haven't read The Necromancer!
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Fuzzbinn

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Jun 1 10 2:50 AM

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OK -Thought it was absolutely awesome. So much stuff to discuss - I'll limit myself to 10 points, as i did in like my 4th post ever here, back by the Sorceress. (although i wasn't nearly as long winded there. )

1. the Hook Handed Man - AKA Marethyu, and the fact that he's been running a huge show here. Some things I noticed - he's told Dee his fate is with the Swords, Perenelle her fate as well and that of the world - clearly he's orchestaring something behind the scenes here - beyond even the HUGE fighting with the Original Twins to take down Danu Talis (!!!) On that note, Scatty and Joan not being lost, and learning both Pally's Elder, and that Shakespeare was immortal by his own was great.

2. Saint German - Master of Fire and Annoying Elders. Seriously, that man has a gift.

3. The Swords!!! Making Laygates! and FINALLY: Durandal, of Air and Joyeuse of Earth. Let that argument OFFICIALLY be ended. Oh, and the reaction of the blades to when Josh is near them - awesomely interesting. As was learning that Josh is linked better to Fire, Sophie to Water.

4. On arguments - Necromancer was Josh methinks. Wasn't quite sure, since he doesn't actually learn any Necromancy, but I'm going on the assumption that raising Coatlicue counts.

5. Coatlicue. Aside from everything about her, something MUCH more important I noticed: (bear with me on this one.) Page 373: We're given Coatlicue's true description - vaguely human, with 2 snake heads ad a robe of snakes. Pretty unique there. MUCH earlier, on page 117, Sophie is talking with Aofie about her and Scatty when she sees a vision, perhaps from the Witch's memories - of "Scatty - or was if Aofie - clinging to a monster on humans legs..." etc. Pretty similar to the fight between Aofie and Coathanger later on. Except this is considerably earlier - explainable, perhaps a flash of the future - if not for page 363: Where Josh has a vision of a snake headed monster with a skirt of serpents leading an army against - "a hooded man with a hook instead of a left hand [*cough Marethyu cough*] and a red haired, pale skinned warrior". Not quite sure what to amke of all this - but it's definitely a hint to something.

6. ABRAHAM = Gold. Perhaps there was a Silver twin there? And the Abraham flashback was huge - sending Zephaninah (obvious reference to Zephife, IMHO ) on missions, "mingling Archon technology and Elder magic in ways that have never been used before." - in reference to creating the Codex! as well as needing something from the Nameless City - of Earthlord construct, home of the Ancients, Archons, and Great Elders to finish to Codex! "For Abraham, nothing is impossible..."
Some information that he was working with Chronos to get the date for the end of the world (interesting, because Hekate only allowed the Codex to survive, she says, because Abraham was gifted with Sight, and could see the curling strands of time..., and yet he needs Chronos. Hmmm....
And my personal favorite line in the Book, "Abraham believes the world will end..." "He's been promising that for centuries. If he says it long enough, then one day he'll be right."

7. Niten, who's just cool. Seriously awesome. Royal Blue Aura, didn't quite catch his scent, not sure if it was mentioned, but he's awesome.

8. Virginia Dare, another great new character. Seeing as Josh is with Dee and Friends right now (more on that in a sec), and we know from the Sorceress that Dare is a Mistress of Air, perhaps Josh might be getting a lesson in Air Magic next book.

9. Machiavelli and Billy just incredible, Mac realizing the point of life, and going rogue (I think) with Billy against the Dark Elders!!! Awesome. This pairing is easily becoming my root for point.

10. The WARLOCK: Mars Ultor! (Least we won't spend a year debating who the title character is .) But, my biggest brainwave, and shoutout to Indigo for developing this one (and most of the above as well) with me: We're told in the Sorceress that Mars is Bastet's little brother. Who she called Horus. Horus, who in almost all mythology is the SON of Isis and Osiris - who just happen to be visiting Mars when the Witch is there to free him. Hmmm.
Also - Mars was harvesting the spark of life, the spark of Prometheus' aura... But we're not told why. But we now know Mars is a Warlock. I'm sure that someone of the stature of a Title Character Warlock might be able to find a few uses for life spark Auric energy....

"The world is in need of a Warlock again....". And the Fuzz is in need of THE Warlock. 12 months to go.

So, those're my 10. Sorry for the huge ramble post, but I had a lot of time to think about it.

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Jun 1 10 3:06 AM

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This Marethyu guy just freaks me out, he doesn't know everything but he definetly knows more than everyone else. Wonder what race he is?

Saint Germaine is so awesome!

Can't believe Josh just left his sister without a backwards glance. I hope he "turns good again".

I was so confused, like why is it even called the necromancer, not much about necromancy at all! I guess Josh was the Necromancer, though coatlicue was not dead! Josh and gold Auras have something to do with the swords, im sure of it!

I think everyone goes back in time and fights coatlicue in the last book. I now understand all of the Witch of Endors memories.

What race is Abraham? Who is he? Earthlord? Will we see Earthlords in the next book?

Niten is going to die I'm just guessing, i have this feeling. I hope he doesn't though.

Good observation! I am 100% sure that Dare will teach Josh air magic now!

Billy is the best character also Machiaveli!

I now know who gives Nicholas the codex! Osiris! Bright blue eyes! I could be wrong though, because osiris wears white.

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Spacecadet

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#3 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:10 AM

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Fuzz, your number 5 is interesting, i think you might be on to something there

So here are some of my thoughts


This book had a very different feel to it than the others, almost a sense of the calm before the storm, that's not to say there weren't some eminent things occurring but i feel like this was a large setup for much much bigger things to come. It was a lot more talking and planning than actual action until the very end, and despite that I still found the book very exciting. Im not sure if I can say its my favorite so far though as i think it stands on a completely different playing field than the first trilogy, and I dont think there's a basis for comparison there.

I enjoyed that this book is heavily rooted in love and connections. It contains a lot of who is connected to whom, how and why its important. It was great to see despite some of the divisions earlier, people generally were coming together with at least one other character. New connections were drawn and others were broken, and it was exciting to see how that all came about.

I loved all the new characters, I think Dare is probably my favorite new character, I loved everything about her, but Aoife is probably a close second. I truly enjoyed Niten and Prometheus and Queztlcoatl and Matheyu (his purpose I found the most shocking) and all the others as well, but those are the new ones that really stuck out in my mind.

Dare as i said before is a very complex and interesting character. I enjoy her unwillingness to commit unless she is protected and sees some benefit to herself (sound familiar... switzerland??? ). I found her very intriguing.

I found Aoife a bit of a conundruma first but after finishing the book, I really understand where she is coming from and dare I say, I think I enjoy her characterization and depth even more than Scatty. She is a very complex character and despite watching her struggle with her decisions, she is truly motivated by her love for her sister despite their falling out. I also like seeing the parallels between Scatty and Aoife and Josh and Sophie. Id like to see her again and part of me sees her departure with Coatlicue as a similar exit to Scatty and Dagon, so im hoping she comes back and we possibly get to see a reconcile between Aoife and Scatty.

There was also great character development of old characters. I enjoyed the Germain/Shakespeare/Palamedes interactions and them joining up with Joan and Scatty that made for an exciting setup, and I loved the Fibbonacci sequence of leygates at the end! Im interested to see how the Danu Talis in the past bit plays out and how that contributes to the stories future, and I hope they all make it back or survive, as i love each and everyone one of those characters. I also had a serious dull moment with Pallamedes and his elder, The green knight's elder is the green man... the connection seems so obvious now.

I found the interactions between Mach and Billy a lot of fun, and humorous at times. Billy really is just a 22 year old guy. And I loved that he is really a lot like his elder, a chip off the old block so to speak, and that Mach the king manipulator finds himself the adult between two (at times) immature guys. I enjoyed this dynamic a lot.

The only character I struggled with in this book was Perry. In the Sorceress she was so powerful, strong and confident, a force to be reckoned with and you rooted for her and in the necromancer she became arrogant, pushy and mean and I didnt like her at many points. I know she has an agenda and a secret, but I lost faith in her when she lied on many occasions (more so than Nick), I know she carries the last name of flamel, but I consider the lying to be Nicholas' gig and she scared me in this book. I wasnt surprised to find that she wears the pants in the relationship though. However, I'm not sure what she is up to with being so well connected to the witch. Despite that by the end of the day book entry in the warlock she had redeemed herself a bit, and the old caring dynamic Perry was starting to reappear.

There was mention again of the witch awakening sophie and im not sure what it up there but its definitely hit on my radar.

I immensely enjoyed the witch's back story with prometheus, and look forward to hearing more about her, however i am highly suspicious of her and her actions. I dont understand some of the things she does, and the repercussions those will hold, and some of the things she has begun doing seem sinister and in league with the dark elders. I know she is a major supporter for the humani, but i wouldnt be at all surprised to hear that she has changed sides. Then again the elder dynamic is a very complex one, and we've learned there isnt a black and white or strict good and evil. At times its more who will support my cause and others its every man/woman for themselves.

Ok i think thats probably enough thoughts for now, but i truly enjoyed this book, it was unexpected at times, and I think thats why I liked to so much. Usually im all for action, but this was a nice change of pace and a great 4th installment to the series.

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#4 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:17 AM

In the begining on page 24 I don't think Josh is talking to his father, because there is "burbling static". This static is also seen in the sorceress when dee is talking to his elder. This might be a coincidence though.
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Fuzzbinn

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#5 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:20 AM

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Great analysis SC, and totally agreed on the Perry point - felt it was a distinct shift in character, and even somewhat sinister at points, as was a bit of the Witch. Of the "good" charectors, those two are my biggest question mark as to their motive (not Nick, as Josh would say ). And I'm not quite buying that the Witch's memories aren't overpowering Sophie's. Especially coming from Perenelle at this point.

And totally didn't catch the Fibbonachi sequence of gates there. Brilliant catch and call SC.

One last point (I know I'm cheating by my own rule...), but not quite sure Josh is actually darksiding it... especially since his eyes were red when he left - the color they turned when he's being controlled by Mars.
Although left to his own devices (IE not under Mars' hypnosis), I'd probably put him in the middle between the two sides at this point, (whereas Sophie is still with the Flamels.)

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#6 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:33 AM

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First of all The Necromancer was EPIC. As Michael promised we did learn a lot about the Witch of Endor. And I could not believe Josh turned out to be The Necromancer, but of course the clues did also point out to him except I underestimated his ability to learn the art for him to be named The Necromancer.

The other Elemental Sword were named - Durendal and Joyeuse, with green and brown auras respectively- and that ends the debate. Now we know that the Swords are not merely weapons, but much, much more. I wish we could have seen what Dee saw in his vision.

The Sorceress has remained a puzzle. We learn a few things about her still she remains a mystery even to Nicholas. Perenelle has met Marethyu at least twice in her lifetime, she has the power to see some treads of time and the power to compel or the power of suggestion. Congratulations to whoever guessed the whip in the cover BTW.

We now know that Sparticle did guess Machiavelli's Elder right - Akhenaten. Niten's master, Benzaiten, could be a Great Elder. Abraham (Great Elder?) has a gold aura like Midas and Tut, but interestingly enough Arthur was not mentioned with all those with pure gold auras.

Godsryche theory of going back to Danu Talis, was right. Only for now, it's only the 'warriors' who goes back.

And I cam't wait for The Warlock to come out. Four Elders in the first chapter is Awesome. And like Fuzz said no more debating who the next title character will be.

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#7 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:35 AM

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Okay, first I have to say that I totally loved the book. I agree with SC that I thought it had a different feel than the rest. That in part could come from all the information that was packed into a fast-pace plot, and I loved how everything was wound together into a bundle of awesomesauce

IMHO, some of the best lines came from Machiavelli and Billy. They make quite the interesting pair.

I loved all of the new characters we meet! My personal favorite has to be Prometheus. I've always loved his stories in mythology, and it was great to see him introduced in the series. I thought the bond between him and Aoife was a nice touch

Fuzz, I definitely agree with you about Marethyu running a major show here. His influenced so many people in so many different ways...and Shakespeare who says Marethyu is familiar. Speaking of running the show, I think Zephaniah (definitely a connection to Zephfire there) is doing a bit of her own show-running when she calls Isis and Osiris to see Mars.

So many new Elders too! Quetzelcoatl, Aten/Akhenaten, Prometheus, Isis, Osiris. Not to mention all of the stuff about the Ancients and the Earthlords. Spooky.

One thing I noticed that was interesting was how many times Michael includes eye color when talking about certain characters. I've noticed it in this book especially. I know eye color has been mentioned as important before, and this just backs that theory up.

I find it ironic that Prometheus talks to Josh and Sophie (Sophie in-particular, I believe) about always listening to her twin and getting the facts straight from them. And then Josh ends up going with Dee and Dare (the double "D"s of double trouble, lol) at the end of the book. Foreshadowing much?

I shall be back...once I get all of my sticky notes and folded corners together.

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#9 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:41 AM

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QUOTE (Fuzzbinn @ May 31, 2010 10:50 pm)
But, my biggest brainwave, and shoutout to Indigo for developing this one (and most of the above as well) with me: We're told in the Sorceress that Mars is Bastet's little brother. Who she called Horus. Horus, who in almost all mythology is the SON of Isis and Osiris - who just happen to be visiting Mars when the Witch is there to free him. Hmmm.

Thanks for the shout-out, Fuzzy.

This book was amazing. It definitely made me question some things. Like, which people are actually lying, and which are telling part or even all of the truth.

spacecadet, I agree with you, Perenelle unsettles me as well. Suddenly I am wondering which Flamel is the most trustworthy. Also, I KNEW there was some kind of pattern to the gates they went it, but I had no idea what it could be. Nice job spotting that SC.

Also Fuzz, I was thinking roughly the same thing. It clearly says that Josh's eyes were RED. So, I believe that he was still being possessed by Mars. And on the topic of Josh, I think it's safe to say that the many members who I think put a certain idea forward will be happy that they were right. Namely, that Josh has a gold (sun) aura, so his natural element is fire, and Sophie has a silver (moon) aura, so her natural is water. And (although she said this rather harshly) Perenelle said that Sophie will be able to do things that Josh can't. Nick then said that Sophie AND Josh will have different strengths and weaknesses.

Anyways, on the swords. I am SO glad that the identities of all the blades can be put to rest. Joyeuse, Excalibur, Clarent, and Durendal. Why can't the swords be combined exactly? Is it as some say, and the swords are so powerful that they can tear the earth apart?

Prometheus and Mars. I would really like to know why Mars was harvesting Prometheus' aura through human sacrifice. We aren't really given that many clues about it (that I can see anyways).

Also... I can't believe that the Necromancer is the Witch! ... Just joking of course.

I believe Josh is the Necromancer, which in retrospect is really surprising because MANY people believed that it was going to be an experienced immortal, myself included.

Oh, Zephaniah (sounds like the name of someone here on these forums... flamelssecret/hysterical.gif ), her flashback chapter was.. interesting! I noticed that she and Prometheus act like subordinates to Abraham. It's like, they're following his orders. I think this means that he is... something older and more powerful than the Elders. We still don't have a lot of info on him though. I almost forgot about him having a gold aura until you reminded me, Fuzz.

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#10 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:45 AM

Important question! What color are Marethyu and The witch of Endor's eyes. I am about to stumble upon the biggest and best theory ever!
@(•L•)@

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#11 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:46 AM

Ok So the whole Abraham has so much influence on Zephaniah and others makes me go flamelssecret/sFun_explosive.gif who or WHAT is he I always thought he was just a humani that created the codex and tried immortality. AN what happened to him.

DEATH! he was DEATH i had no clue that would be him and how does he know so much im full of questions.

SO is the witch of endor stuck in that granny appearance? or has she simply disguised herself that way. And NOW shes interested me I thought of her as a simple elder but now that she knows so much like Archon and earthlord lore I just cant wait for the warlock they should just publish it in 6 months

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Spacecadet

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#13 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:51 AM

QUOTE (@(•L•)@ @ May 31, 2010 10:45 pm)
Important question! What color are Marethyu and The witch of Endor's eyes. I am about to stumble upon the biggest and best theory ever!
@(•L•)@

Marethyu's are black the witch's were green before she gave them up

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#14 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:53 AM

Yes! Finally a place where you can just go insane with Quotes, ideas, theories that will probably be proven completely wrong in the books to come without spoiling! flamelssecret/clap3.gif

Well, maybe not as insane as Sophie... She seems as if she just escaped from an insane asylum...

And I think it's so hilarious how I was soooo wrong on some of my theories and ideas of the Necromancer.


I still have no thoughts on The Necromancer though. I am forced to asume it's Josh, because the only ones who preform the art in this book is him, and Dee who taught it to him. But it can't Be Dee for he was The Magician. But to me, Josh doesn't seen to fit this role. -_-

That or i'm really picky. Anyways, The Alchemyst was simple to find out, I mean they repetitively call nicholas, "Alchemyst" same with Dee as the "english magician" and Perenelle as "The Sorceress" But I don't think I saw a single recognition as anyone being called a "Necromancer" except Dee. And he is already the Magician!!! flamelssecret/confused0058.gif

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#15 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:54 AM

For me, by far the best book.
Prometheus was the best new character in the book and Nitan was pretty epic. Aoife surprised me. I thought she was going to be less friendly and more cold toward the twins but I found that I like her better than Scatty.
Perenelle was quite pushy and I didn't like her at all in this book. Before I thought she was awesome but now..... and the thing with the Witch of Endor only finding out much later that Perenelle was married to Nick and Perry using her maiden name?!?!?!?!??!
The new elders were really cool. I loved Mach and Billy's part in the book . It was funny how Mach was the only mature person at times and how his whole entire outlook changed when Quetzelcoatl was about to decide whether he should live or not. He is one of a=my favorite characters.

Overall, this book was awesome and I was so upset that I have to wait another year before the Warlock comes out.

You have triggered the autocensor, in the future please keep what you say on the forums family friendly Thanks

"No one knew why. He didn't even know why. But there was something about that sight of a soul so powerful that he would not give up fighting until all of his fears and nightmares were dead . . . until every single scream in the night had been muffled and turned into laughter . . . something about that sight struck him as admirable."
-Mordred

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#17 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:56 AM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ May 31, 2010 09:51 pm)
QUOTE (@(•L•)@ @ May 31, 2010 10:45 pm)
Important question! What color are Marethyu and The witch of Endor's eyes. I am about to stumble upon the biggest and best theory ever!
@(•L•)@

Marethyu's are black the witch's were green before she gave them up

It says multiple times in The Necromancer that his eyes are blue...

QUOTE
...the hooded man looked up and seemed to stare out of the ball of smoke. They saw his blue eyes blaze and shimmer with silver light.
page 260

QUOTE
The hooded man had remained seated on the rock, bright blue eyes watching each immortal in turn, absently running his index finger along the length of the hook that took the place of his left hand.
pages 299-300

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"Be who you are, what you were, what they see. From eternity's view, tell me which one is me." -Epiphany, TSO
Aura color: GOLD..........Scent: Burning matches

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#18 [url]

Jun 1 10 3:57 AM

QUOTE (Sparticle @ June 01, 2010 12:26 am)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ May 31, 2010 09:51 pm)
QUOTE (@(•L•)@ @ May 31, 2010 10:45 pm)
Important question! What color are Marethyu and The witch of Endor's eyes. I am about to stumble upon the biggest and best theory ever!
@(•L•)@

Marethyu's are black the witch's were green before she gave them up

It says multiple times in The Necromancer that his eyes are blue...

QUOTE
...the hooded man looked up and seemed to stare out of the ball of smoke. They saw his blue eyes blaze and shimmer with silver light.
page 260

QUOTE
The hooded man had remained seated on the rock, bright blue eyes watching each immortal in turn, absently running his index finger along the length of the hook that took the place of his left hand.
pages 299-300

Thanks!
That seemed to fit my pattern better!
@(•L•)@

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#20 [url]

Jun 1 10 4:00 AM

SC, it was Queztlcoatl who had black eyes.

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