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Zephfire

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Oct 4 09 11:11 PM

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By popular request, here is the thread for you to discuss your thoughts and theories on the swords, not just Clarent and Excalibur, but all four!
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Moviebuff

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Oct 9 09 6:32 AM

i'm surprised no ones posted here yet since there have been a ton of discussions on the swords in multiple threads. let me just point out the sword that were already mentiuoned in the book/s

QUOTE (Magician)
There are four great swords of power, each one linked to the elements: Earth, Air, Fire and Water. It is said that they predate even the oldest of the Elder Races. The swords have had many names through the ages: Excalibur and Joyeuse, Mistelteinn and Curtana, Durendal and Tyrfing.


I haven't really done too muuch digging on the subject. but based on the series Excalibur and Joyeuse are the same. The series ofcourse says that Charlemagne weilded both Joyeuse and Clarent at a time. Swords of Ice and Fire.

digging on Durendal and Tyrfing will sat that both are symbolic of fire. Are these other names for Clarent?

digging on Mistelteinn and Curtana is a bit tricky. Accounts on Mistelteinn/Mystiltenn does not compliment ech other at times. it is called The Sword of Victory, although not all the battles proved vctorious to Hotherus, its weildr, against Baldur. (also an interesting attribute: made of a stick - misletoe)

another account goes to say that, in one battle Hotherus lost the sword in a body of water and later found in the stomach of a pike. similar to how anothe sword (kusanagi) was found. in the stomach of a snake.

Curtana/Cortana is the Sword of Mecry once weilded by Edward the Confessor of England. a notable quality of this sword is the blades material, similar to that of two swords previously mentioned - Joyeuse and Durendal.

are the Durendal and Cortana the sword of Earth and air respectively?

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Spacecadet

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Oct 9 09 11:30 AM

As far as ive found when researching the swords, most were names of swords synonymous with clarent and excalibur or were swords of fire and ice which id imagine are the same as clarent and excalibur, of the few that werent i didnt (as of yet) find any affiliation with the elements. I was a little confused by that line in the magician as there isnt a whole lot of information on the remaining swords that arent linked to clarent and exaclibur, and i had trouble linking the few left to the elements (if the remaining two are even linked to elements, which i imagine they are) I often wonder if the two remaining swords have even been been named in the series thus far... would MS really make it that easy on us? flamelssecret/idk.gif

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Oct 9 09 1:05 PM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ October 09, 2009 02:32 am)
although not all the battles proved vctorious to Hotherus, its weildr, against Baldur. (also an interesting attribute: made of a stick - misletoe)

Now that is odd. Baldr's only weakness was mistletoe. In fact, a mistletoe-covered arrow killed him.


As for the swords, they have passed from wielder to wielder over hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of years, and it's likely that their names have changed - Nicholas Flamel said as much - as they moved from culture to culture. Due to this, what people may have thought were two different swords, were actually the same sword. This could be especially true if the fusing of two swords was common practice. We have the most recent names narrowed down to Clarent, Excalibur, and Joyeuse. I'm guessing that later in the series we will find out the current identity of the fourth sword. We're pretty much left with the names Tyrfing, Curtana, Mistelteinn, and Durendal. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the name of the final blade hasn't been mentioned yet.

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Godsryche

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Oct 9 09 1:10 PM

QUOTE (Indigo Spirit @ October 09, 2009 09:05 am)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ October 09, 2009 02:32 am)
although not all the battles proved vctorious to Hotherus, its weildr, against Baldur. (also an interesting attribute: made of a stick - misletoe)

Now that is odd. Baldr's only weakness was mistletoe. In fact, a mistletoe-covered arrow killed him.


As for the swords, they have passed from wielder to wielder over hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of years, and it's likely that their names have changed - Nicholas Flamel said as much - as they moved from culture to culture. Due to this, what people may have thought were two different swords, were actually the same sword. This could be especially true if the fusing of two swords was common practice. We have the most recent names narrowed down to Clarent, Excalibur, and Joyeuse. I'm guessing that later in the series we will find out the current identity of the fourth sword. We're pretty much left with the names Tyrfing, Curtana, Mistelteinn, and Durendal. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the name of the final blade hasn't been mentioned yet.

Joyeuse and Excalibur are the same sword, I believe.

Also that quote from the Magician, I read that as those were all names that Clarent and Excalibur were also known as, so I dont think we've been told anything about the Earth and Air swords yet.

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Oct 9 09 1:22 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ October 09, 2009 09:10 am)
Joyeuse and Excalibur are the same sword, I believe.

Perhaps. But the comments that Scathach made suggest that Joyeuse and Excalibur are different, to me at least. Though she could have been subtly referring Excalibur.

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Moviebuff

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Oct 10 09 8:20 AM

QUOTE (Indigo Spirit @ October 09, 2009 01:05 pm)
Now that is odd. Baldr's only weakness was mistletoe. In fact, a mistletoe-covered arrow killed him.


As for the swords, they have passed from wielder to wielder over hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of years, and it's likely that their names have changed - Nicholas Flamel said as much - as they moved from culture to culture. Due to this, what people may have thought were two different swords, were actually the same sword. This could be especially true if the fusing of two swords was common practice.

that's right, one account says nothing about the make, simply refering to it as a twig. but further on it was believed to be mistletoe. and the contradicting accounts were from documentaion of Icelandic authors

QUOTE (Godsryche @ October 09, 2009 01:10 pm)
Joyeuse and Excalibur are the same sword, I believe.

Also that quote from the Magician, I read that as those were all names that Clarent and Excalibur were also known as, so I dont think we've been told anything about the Earth and Air swords yet.

Joyeuse and Excalibur are the same sword, yes, as implied in the Magician.

i belived the same thing while reading the Magician too, only i wasn't able to make any elemental connection to both Curtana and Mistelteinn or anything that might suggest the they're just alternate name for Excalibur and Clarent


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#7 [url]

Oct 18 09 12:53 PM

I believe that Durendal is actually Clarent because its user, Roland, tries to destroy it to ensure that the Saracens don't capture it. When this proves impossible, he hides it in the Pyrenees.

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Fuzzbinn

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Oct 18 09 1:33 PM

While we're discussing the Swords, some things I've noticed, particularly in the Sorceress -

- Gilgamesh mentions that the two swords power together could destroy the world
- Josh, in his vision of Stonehenge sees a then as of yet unchanged Cerneunos wielding "a plain, unmarked grey stone blade" (not sure of exact quote, not by my book right now)) - is it possible he was using the fused blade (which has a similar description when Dee fuses them)? If so, a hint to its power - making Stonehenge?!?
- Exclariantbur seems to have some immediate healing powers of some sort - Dee is healed once he makes it.

And now, a question or few - Does Excarinatbur have fire powers or ice/water? Both? Neither?

Finally, I'm not entirely sure Joyeucuse is Excalibur - seeing as when Nick presents Josh with Clarent, he asks if that blade is Joyecuse - to which Scatty then says that it isn't. Seeing as Josh, Nick, and Scatty all know Dee has Excalibur, then it would be inherintly obvious even to Josh that it isn't Excalibur - implying Joyecuse is indeed a separate blade. Also, Scatty says in book 1 that she though Excalibur lost when "Artorius threw it into the lake" - which would seem to contradict the fact that the last blade used in the world of men was when Charlemange used Joyecuse - so its defiantly a different sword. (And I'm inclined to think its Air). Is it possible that the other 2 blades also have a light/dark aspect like Excalibur/Clarent?

Alright, i think that's enough from me for right now....

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#9 [url]

Oct 18 09 3:11 PM

You should work on your combo names. Ok so if Clarexcalibur combined because of the twin part does that mean that Clarent represented the sun (josh) and that Excalibur represented the moon (sophie). Meaning that when the time comes Josh and Sophie shall combine (as in a thread godsryche pointed out.) Does this also mean that Josh shall be the one to destroy it and Sophie to save it. That is in assuming that Clarent is the evil blade and Excalibur is the good one.

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#10 [url]

Oct 18 09 3:34 PM

My brother came up witjh something similar saying that the twins are Clarent and Excalibur. I disagreed cuz the swords dont have auras and that dagon had seen the original twins. He pointed out though at the end Gilgamesh sees Dee combine the swords into one and quote a line from the prophecy. I thought perhaps the line"And the immortal will teach the mortal" means that the swords will 'teach" Sophie and Josh through the experiences the sword gives you if you hit something with it.

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#11 [url]

Oct 18 09 3:43 PM

Well that is a great theory right there. But that would mean that the twins would need the swords back. Again funny because Fuzz said that someone tried to destroy them but it never worked. So the swords are immortal. Well that must mean that Nick is not their master. But do not forget that they said that Abraham was NOT always right. Imagine a break out of WW3 and then they realise the prophecy was wrong. \lol but I highly doubt that.

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#12 [url]

Oct 18 09 3:51 PM

Something else that I had thought of is the other 2 swords. Would they be twin blades as well? If they are maybe Sophie and Josh would each get one set. But a thing that bugs men isn't there a sword for each of Elemental Magics? So wouldn't there be one that represents Aether? Also Josh seems to connect with Clarent on an odd level. When fighting with it his aura changes from Gold to a more reddish orange. So i think that either Sophie and Josh are going to break the swords apart or that they are going to fuse together. The latter doesn't make much sense on account that their auras would no longer be pure. Another problem is that we haven't seen how Sophie would react to Excalibur would her aura turn a silver blue as she fights? A problem is that the Hook handed man told Nick that he was the immortal of the prophecy.

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Godsryche

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Oct 19 09 12:21 PM

QUOTE (feydaykin1495 @ October 18, 2009 11:51 am)
Something else that I had thought of is the other 2 swords. Would they be twin blades as well? If they are maybe Sophie and Josh would each get one set. But a thing that bugs men isn't there a sword for each of Elemental Magics? So wouldn't there be one that represents Aether? Also Josh seems to connect with Clarent on an odd level. When fighting with it his aura changes from Gold to a more reddish orange. So i think that either Sophie and Josh are going to break the swords apart or that they are going to fuse together. The latter doesn't make much sense on account that their auras would no longer be pure. Another problem is that we haven't seen how Sophie would react to Excalibur would her aura turn a silver blue as she fights? A problem is that the Hook handed man told Nick that he was the immortal of the prophecy.

Perhaps all 4 swords can combine to one uber-sword that can control everything, even the Aether.

The twins can't learn Aether until they learn the other 4 first...perhaps the same is true for the swords.

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Fuzzbinn

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Oct 19 09 1:11 PM

4 blade uber-sword - Niiiice... Where can I get one of those???

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Oct 19 09 4:19 PM

Oh gee I guess you could get one in a joke shop!! (boys!!) (I am assuming fuzz is a boy that is ((I would end up crying of laughter if fuzz wasn't!! ))) Ok so if they all combine in to one - In theory- then I am wondering if the first twins of legend have something to do with this. I am also wondering if somehoow ing Arthur has something to do with this.

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Godsryche

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Oct 19 09 4:36 PM

Well the swords are Archon technology so I don't think any of the previous owners have to do with the swords being able to merge together.

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#17 [url]

Oct 19 09 6:42 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ October 19, 2009 04:36 pm)
Well the swords are Archon technology so I don't think any of the previous owners have to do with the swords being able to merge together.

I guess not. Godsryche do you have a constant radar of when someone is wrong? LOL kidding! Well know I am a little confused. If the archons allowed the two swords to merge then how did they not know about the prophecy of Abraham the Mage and destroy them? Would they not have hidden them at least in some sort of special Shadow realm? I just confused myself flamelssecret/crazy.gif

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Godsryche

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Oct 19 09 6:45 PM

QUOTE (Megan Newman @ October 19, 2009 02:42 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ October 19, 2009 04:36 pm)
Well the swords are Archon technology so I don't think any of the previous owners have to do with the swords being able to merge together.

I guess not. Godsryche do you have a constant radar of when someone is wrong? LOL kidding! Well know I am a little confused. If the archons allowed the two swords to merge then how did they not know about the prophecy of Abraham the Mage and destroy them? Would they not have hidden them at least in some sort of special Shadow realm? I just confused myself flamelssecret/crazy.gif

Personally, I don't believe the swords have anything to do with the prophecy. I think it was just the ramblings of an old man upon seeing the merge and muttered a comment. As a foreshadow of what will happen to the twins of legend.

And the archons didn't "allow" the swords to be fused together, they just created 4 powerful swords that could be joined to create a really powerful weapon/tool.

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Oct 19 09 8:03 PM

Where did you get all of this info? I reread the sorceress about5 times now and I can't seem to remember any of this information.

But I thought you were the one who said that maybe Gilgamesh was reciting the prophecy because that is what might happen to the twins?

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Godsryche

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Oct 19 09 8:19 PM

QUOTE (Megan Newman @ October 19, 2009 04:03 pm)
Where did you get all of this info? I reread the sorceress about5 times now and I can't seem to remember any of this information.

But I thought you were the one who said that maybe Gilgamesh was reciting the prophecy because that is what might happen to the twins?

That is what i said.

That he said "the two are one..." relating it to the twins. And that the swords themselves have nothing to do with the prophecy.


and the info about the swords is just something I'm stringing together from what we do know.

We know Clarent belongs to Cern. and he certainly implies that it is his sword that makes me believe he crafted it. So it's safe to assume that the other swords were owned/created by the other Archons. The ability that the swords have is just inherent in the technology that created them.

The swords are able to be fused together, and they appear to "want" to. Like some sort of magnetism.

Archon technology is so advanced that it "seems like magic"

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