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Zephfire

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Aug 24 09 11:29 PM

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Since the question of the actual wording of the prophecy keeps popping up, I've put it here for you in red so it's easy to find.

QUOTE (The Alchemyst)

The two that are one, the one that is all.
There will come a time when the Book is taken
And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow
Then the Elder will step out of the Shadows
And the immortal must train the mortal. 
The two that are one must become the one that is all.


For everyone that has PM'ed to ask me for a specific thread for the Codex itself.. here you are, the thread to talk about your theories on the spells, the prophecies, the final summoning and any other secrets you think the Codex may contain.
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#1 [url]

Aug 25 09 12:34 AM

First post!
Um, anyways...obviously we have to consider the Clarent-Excalibur controversy.

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Moviebuff

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#2 [url]

Aug 25 09 6:35 AM

we've disected this multiple times, and so far the only thing that we know for certain is that the book has already been taken.

we initially thouht Dee and Nicholas were mentioned in the prophecy, but it turns out that there are two "Queen's man" and atleast two immortlas who've trained the Twins.

if we were to follow the Prophecy in chronological order though, it should be:
1. taking of Codex
2. alligence of The Morrigan and a "Queen's Man"
3. Elder stepping out of the Shadow
4. Immortal training the Twins
if this is how its goig to be, I'd say that the Eders will surely return on the Summer Solstice. The pro-Humani side will then reacquire the book. The "Immortal" (I'm assuming to be Nick, since its his destiny according to the one-hand man) will train the twins on the last element using the Codex. the merging of the "Twins" - Sophie and Josh or Excalibur an Clarent, we don't know yet. from here we'll have to wait for the outcome - destruction or salvation.

that's another interpretation i came up with.

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#3 [url]

Aug 25 09 4:08 PM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 25, 2009 06:35 am)
2. alligence of The Morrigan and a "Queen's Man"

It doesn't have to be the Morrigan. The crow could be The Macha or the Babd or some other crow deity

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#4 [url]

Aug 25 09 5:53 PM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 25, 2009 04:08 pm)
It doesn't have to be the Morrigan. The crow could be The Macha or the Babd or some other crow deity

Yes, I have been thinking along these same (ley) lines flamelssecret/hysterical.gif about the Crow goddess!
No, but seriously. When Macha and Badb were negotiating with Perry to free them from the Words of Power snare under Alcatraz this is what they said,

QUOTE
"Free us," the Crow Goddess continued urgently, "and we will be in your debt."  "It's a very tempting offer," Perenelle said.  "But how do I know I can trust you?  How do I know you will not set upon me the moment I free you?..."Because we will give you our word-the word of a warrior, the unbreakable word of the Crow Goddess."


It seems to me that the title of Crow Goddess can be used when we are dealing with any one of the sisters or when we are dealing with any combination of the three. Now that that issue is all muddled up who is the Queen's Man?

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Moviebuff

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#5 [url]

Aug 26 09 3:53 AM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 25, 2009 04:08 pm)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 25, 2009 06:35 am)
2. alligence of The Morrigan and a "Queen's Man"

It doesn't have to be the Morrigan. The crow could be The Macha or the Babd or some other crow deity

saying The Morrigan is easier seeing as they are in one body and she's the only one who haven't sworn alligence to Perenelle. But of course you're right, it can be any of them.

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hitmanjls

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#6 [url]

Aug 26 09 3:45 PM

Found this little bit that Flamel talks about the Codex...

QUOTE (The Alchemyst)
The Alchemyst nodded. There is a little but. There is nothing in the book about Hekate or the Shadowrealm, nothing about Dee or Bastet or the Morrigan. But He sighed. There are several prophecies about twins.


He says the book mentions nothing about Dee or the Morrigan... So whats "And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow" mean then?

Or is it just more of Flamel's lies? Hmmmm...

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dreamingofedward

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#7 [url]

Aug 26 09 3:50 PM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ August 26, 2009 10:45 am)
Found this little bit that Flamel talks about the Codex...

QUOTE (The Alchemyst)
The Alchemyst nodded. There is a little but. There is nothing in the book about Hekate or the Shadowrealm, nothing about Dee or Bastet or the Morrigan. But He sighed. There are several prophecies about twins.


He says the book mentions nothing about Dee or the Morrigan... So whats "And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow" mean then?

Or is it just more of Flamel's lies? Hmmmm...

Maybe Flamel just meant that Dee and the other's weren't specifically named?

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Spacecadet

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#8 [url]

Aug 26 09 3:58 PM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ August 26, 2009 10:45 am)
Found this little bit that Flamel talks about the Codex...

QUOTE (The Alchemyst)
The Alchemyst nodded. There is a little but. There is nothing in the book about Hekate or the Shadowrealm, nothing about Dee or Bastet or the Morrigan. But He sighed. There are several prophecies about twins.


He says the book mentions nothing about Dee or the Morrigan... So whats "And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow" mean then?

Or is it just more of Flamel's lies? Hmmmm...

maybe he didnt fully understand?

Or maybe its time to find other gods that are synonymous with crows. For instance we have gods like horus that is identified with a raven not quite a crow but in the same family.

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hitmanjls

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#9 [url]

Aug 26 09 8:26 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 26, 2009 10:58 am)
maybe he didnt fully understand?


I doubt that's it... here is another piece:

QUOTE (The Alchemist)
Flamel talking to himself:  And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow.  That had to refer to Dr. John Dee.  He had been Queen Elizabeth's personal
magician. And the Crow was clearly the Crow Goddess.

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Moviebuff

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#10 [url]

Aug 27 09 4:52 AM

I agree w/ Kris there. Maybe he was looking for names specifically mentioned.

two Queen's man and The Crow could mean any of the Sister Goddess.

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Spacecadet

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#11 [url]

Aug 27 09 12:20 PM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ August 26, 2009 03:26 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 26, 2009 10:58 am)
maybe he didnt fully understand?


I doubt that's it... here is another piece:

QUOTE (The Alchemist)
Flamel talking to himself:  And the Queen's man is allied with the Crow.  That had to refer to Dr. John Dee.  He had been Queen Elizabeth's personal
magician. And the Crow was clearly the Crow Goddess.

I think this is once again Flamel's interpretation of the codex, he doesnt sound certain as he says that has to be... meaning he's thinking it through in his head, and thats the conclusion he came too.

And I agree with Kris, its possible he was saying no mention of their specific names, maybe eluding to how cryptic the prophecy is.

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#12 [url]

Aug 27 09 12:24 PM

The queen could be Catherine Di Medici and now that The Morrigan is with Perry could it be Machiavelli will turn around and help Nick

I intend to live forever .... so far so good!!

It only takes one tree to make a thousand matches, it only takes one match to burn a thousand trees .......

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Moviebuff

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#13 [url]

Aug 29 09 9:35 AM

found an interesting quote from the Magician, where Perry and Areop-Enap was discussing The Old Spiders allegiance if came down to a fight between Humani and Elders and it led to this

QUOTE (Areop-Enap @ The Magician, p 381)
...That old fool, Abraham, was always twittering on about the twins and scribbling down his indecipherable prophecies in the Codex. I never believed a word of them myself. And in all the years I knew him, he never got a single thing right.


It seems like Abraham wrote the Codex by hand it may have taken him years to finish it. but how would the Old Spider know what he wrote in there if he couldn't look at it? could the Elders have been able to look upon it and touch it before it was completed and Abraham cast a spell to prevent them from doing so?

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#14 [url]

Aug 29 09 1:01 PM

Wow! Awesome find, Moviebuff! flamelssecret/clap3.gif I really like that quote because The Old Spider fought in defense of the humani previously...as did the Witch. It's strange that Elders who have fought to help or fight to destroy humani still both consdier Abraham foolish. One of the reasons I would have thought that the Elders who sided with humani did so because they saw the enslavement of humani and wanted to prevent it. But all the Elders seem to dislike Codex. Maybe it just contains too much of their knowledge that they can't have access to?

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Moviebuff

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#15 [url]

Aug 30 09 7:10 AM

Hekate also thought he was a fool but believes some of his predictions.

well... the Codex does contain millennia of knowledge. if it has the final summoning in it to free the Elders then it may have a spell to lock them away for good. it can also recreate the world as Scatty put it. That much knowledge in the wrong hand humani or immortal is somehting to be feared.

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#16 [url]

Aug 30 09 5:35 PM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 30, 2009 07:10 am)
Hekate also thought he was a fool but believes some of his predictions.

well... the Codex does contain millennia of knowledge. if it has the final summoning in it to free the Elders then it may have a spell to lock them away for good. it can also recreate the world as Scatty put it. That much knowledge in the wrong hand humani or immortal is somehting to be feared.

But if there was a spell to lock them away for good then why are they still here????? Also I have a thought: Does the Codex have like a mind of its own or not???

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#17 [url]

Aug 31 09 4:49 AM

No, I don't think that the Codex has a mind of it's own. If you remember Nicholas said that it's passages and pages shift in a very complicated mathematical sequence (and perhaps had something to do with the lunar cycle flamelssecret/idk.gif ). Consequently there are several mathematical references that come up in the series such as pi and a reference Nick made to Pythagoras calculating the amount of death that would come from opening the Shadowrealms.

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#18 [url]

Aug 31 09 4:55 AM

QUOTE (Lucy @ August 31, 2009 04:49 am)
No, I don't think that the Codex has a mind of it's own. If you remember Nicholas said that it's passages and pages shift in a very complicated mathematical sequence (and perhaps had something to do with the lunar cycle flamelssecret/idk.gif ). Consequently there are several mathematical references that come up in the series such as pi and a reference Nick made to Pythagoras calculating the amount of death that would come from opening the Shadowrealms.

Ok, that makes some sense.

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#19 [url]

Aug 31 09 4:57 AM

QUOTE (Lucy @ August 31, 2009 04:49 am)
No, I don't think that the Codex has a mind of it's own. If you remember Nicholas said that it's passages and pages shift in a very complicated mathematical sequence (and perhaps had something to do with the lunar cycle flamelssecret/idk.gif ). Consequently there are several mathematical references that come up in the series such as pi and a reference Nick made to Pythagoras calculating the amount of death that would come from opening the Shadowrealms.

And the Fibonacci sequence. The text in the Codex could move according to any of those different sequences. It also might depend on what the text on each page means. The formula for the elixir that the Flamels take could move on a lunar cycle, while another page's text moves according to Pi.

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#20 [url]

Aug 31 09 6:00 AM

QUOTE (Sparticle @ August 31, 2009 04:57 am)
QUOTE (Lucy @ August 31, 2009 04:49 am)
No, I don't think that the Codex has a mind of it's own.    If you remember Nicholas said that it's passages and pages shift in a very complicated mathematical sequence (and perhaps had something to do with the lunar cycle  flamelssecret/idk.gif ).  Consequently there are several mathematical references that come up in the series such as pi and a reference Nick made to Pythagoras calculating the amount of death that would come from opening the Shadowrealms.

And the Fibonacci sequence. The text in the Codex could move according to any of those different sequences. It also might depend on what the text on each page means. The formula for the elixir that the Flamels take could move on a lunar cycle, while another page's text moves according to Pi.

and keeping all these in mind Nick may not have come across all of the Codex contents through the centuries. so a spell to put away the Elders for good might still lie, undiscovered, in its pages.

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