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Zephfire

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Aug 24 09 3:37 AM

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Valkyries, Shieldmaidens, Choosers of the Dead and keepers of the Nidhogg. Warrior maidens with blue eyes of various hues and enemies of Scathach. Some were destroyed by Scathach including their Queen, Brynhildr earning their eternal wrath, thirteen of them were destroyed when they lost control of Nidhogg in New Mexico, three more were incapacitated in Paris during their battle to kill Scatchach...but how many more remain? Will the Disir return to settle the score for their fallen sisters?
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#1 [url]

Aug 31 09 6:01 AM

I have a question, why are they in the Elders thread and not the 'others'?

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Zephfire

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#2 [url]

Aug 31 09 11:09 AM

QUOTE (budgge @ August 31, 2009 07:01 am)
I have a question, why are they in the Elders thread and not the 'others'?

Well, that was a decision I made based on the information I'd read in the Magician.
They couldn't go in the Humani thread..
QUOTE (The Magician p124 pdf)
" Humani, the Disir almost spat. No humani can stand against the Shadow.  But we are not humani, the woman standing at the window said.  We are the Disir, finished the woman sitting across from Dee. We are the Shieldmaidens, the Choosers of the Dead, the Warriors of...."

They didn't really strike me as Immortals with an Elder to direct them either, after this line from them
QUOTE (The Magician p141 pdf)
"That sounds like a threat, Doctor," the warrior sitting on the left said.  "Or an order."
"And we do not like threats," her sister sitting to the right added. "And we don't take orders."

Which left me with the choice of "Others" or "Elders". Given their age, and their ability to control something as ancient as the Nidhogg, it just felt right that they'd be Elders! But you shouldn't read anything into where I placed them.. threads can be moved easily!

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Spacecadet

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#3 [url]

Sep 1 09 8:07 PM

I also found this bit on the Disir... It seems to lend to the idea that they may in fact be elders.

QUOTE (The Magician)

The Disir soon discovered that their skills at surviving in the bitter northern climate gave them a special advantage over races and civilizations who could not cope with the deadly, never-ending winter. Gangs of savage female warriors quickly claimed most of the north, enslaving the cities that had escaped the ice. They ruthlessly destroyed anyone who stood against them, and soon the Disir had a second name: Valkyries, the Choosers of the Dead.

Very quickly the Valkyries controlled a frozen empire that encompassed most of the Northern Hemisphere. They forced their humani slaves to worship them as gods and even demanded sacrifices. Uprisings were brutally suppressed. As the Ice Age gripped harder, the Disir began to look farther south, setting their sights on the struggling remnants of civilization.


The used humans as slaves, sounds like the elders to me, well the dark elders anyways. Granted its not 100% solid proof but a step in the direction towards proving they may be elders.

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#4 [url]

Sep 3 09 9:11 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ September 01, 2009 08:07 pm)
I also found this bit on the Disir... It seems to lend to the idea that they may in fact be elders.

QUOTE (The Magician)

The Disir soon discovered that their skills at surviving in the bitter northern climate gave them a special advantage over races and civilizations who could not cope with the deadly, never-ending winter. Gangs of savage female warriors quickly claimed most of the north, enslaving the cities that had escaped the ice. They ruthlessly destroyed anyone who stood against them, and soon the Disir had a second name: Valkyries, the Choosers of the Dead.

Very quickly the Valkyries controlled a frozen empire that encompassed most of the Northern Hemisphere. They forced their humani slaves to worship them as gods and even demanded sacrifices. Uprisings were brutally suppressed. As the Ice Age gripped harder, the Disir began to look farther south, setting their sights on the struggling remnants of civilization.


The used humans as slaves, sounds like the elders to me, well the dark elders anyways. Granted its not 100% solid proof but a step in the direction towards proving they may be elders.

That could be a direction to look at, but I think that they are something like dagon. Immortal but not elder.

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#6 [url]

Sep 13 09 4:27 AM

QUOTE (Wind_Sorceress @ September 12, 2009 10:43 pm)
Does anyone know if the Disir are related to the Amazons at all?

Doubtful...the Amazons were mentioned in Machiavelli's townhouse when the indigo one was playing the piano and they were scoffing and being mean and general. I beleive the quote was,
"I can call upon Amazons, Samurai, and Bogatyrs." ............ "There is no need for these lesser warriors. The Disir will slay the Shadow." the girl standing to Dee's right said.

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#7 [url]

Sep 14 09 6:37 AM

QUOTE (mrprecise @ September 03, 2009 09:11 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ September 01, 2009 08:07 pm)
I also found this bit on the Disir... It seems to lend to the idea that they may in fact be elders.

QUOTE (The Magician)

The Disir soon discovered that their skills at surviving in the bitter northern climate gave them a special advantage over races and civilizations who could not cope with the deadly, never-ending winter. Gangs of savage female warriors quickly claimed most of the north, enslaving the cities that had escaped the ice. They ruthlessly destroyed anyone who stood against them, and soon the Disir had a second name: Valkyries, the Choosers of the Dead.

Very quickly the Valkyries controlled a frozen empire that encompassed most of the Northern Hemisphere. They forced their humani slaves to worship them as gods and even demanded sacrifices. Uprisings were brutally suppressed. As the Ice Age gripped harder, the Disir began to look farther south, setting their sights on the struggling remnants of civilization.


The used humans as slaves, sounds like the elders to me, well the dark elders anyways. Granted its not 100% solid proof but a step in the direction towards proving they may be elders.

That could be a direction to look at, but I think that they are something like dagon. Immortal but not elder.

so they're like other-worldly creatures? living in different shadowrealms w/o masters but consider Elders (at least Odin) as gods too?
that works too, but i've always thought they were elders as SC already pointed out

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hitmanjls

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#8 [url]

Sep 14 09 1:09 PM

I don't know that I agree with them being Elders... This quote makes me think that they at least worship one!

QUOTE (The Magician)
When the woman smiled, Josh saw that her teeth were thin needle points. Easy. Too easy. A legendary sword does not make you a swordsman. Hefting the broadsword, she advanced on the boy, driving him right up against Nidhogg s stone-flesh. Josh squeezed his eyes shut as she raised her arms high and screamed a hideous war cry. Odin!



Notice what she screams in her war cry!....

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#9 [url]

Sep 14 09 10:02 PM

Odin... everything I've found does not point toward cuddly.

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#10 [url]

Sep 15 09 6:55 AM

QUOTE (hitmanjls @ September 14, 2009 01:09 pm)
I don't know that I agree with them being Elders... This quote makes me think that they at least worship one!

QUOTE (The Magician)
When the woman smiled, Josh saw that her teeth were thin needle points. Easy. Too easy. A legendary sword does not make you a swordsman. Hefting the broadsword, she advanced on the boy, driving him right up against Nidhogg s stone-flesh. Josh squeezed his eyes shut as she raised her arms high and screamed a hideous war cry. Odin!



Notice what she screams in her war cry!....

yes, i agree, we do know that they acknowledge Odin as a sort of god.

so are they like Dgaon, like mrprecise pointed out? or are they like the Torc, that considered Hekate a their goddess? both the Torc and Dagon, like the Disir, are pressumably older than Next Gens

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Spacecadet

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#11 [url]

Sep 15 09 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ September 15, 2009 01:55 am)
QUOTE (hitmanjls @ September 14, 2009 01:09 pm)
I don't know that I agree with them being Elders...  This quote makes me think that they at least worship one!

QUOTE (The Magician)
When the woman smiled, Josh saw that her teeth were thin needle points. Easy. Too easy. A legendary sword does not make you a swordsman. Hefting the broadsword, she advanced on the boy, driving him right up against Nidhogg s stone-flesh. Josh squeezed his eyes shut as she raised her arms high and screamed a hideous war cry. Odin!



Notice what she screams in her war cry!....

yes, i agree, we do know that they acknowledge Odin as a sort of god.

so are they like Dgaon, like mrprecise pointed out? or are they like the Torc, that considered Hekate a their goddess? both the Torc and Dagon, like the Disir, are pressumably older than Next Gens

I dont know because we have elders like Nereus who are mentioned as elders but it also states he's working for dee's elder. So i think its just proof that everyone answers to someone. And you often times see next gen/elders training with each other. Scatty was hekate's student and i think there are probably other instances. So I think it might still be possible for the Disir to be elders even if they worship Odin. But I think its equally likely they are something else entirely.

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Zephfire

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#12 [url]

Jan 25 10 12:42 AM

I wonder if we will see a return of the Shield Maidens? It was never said that there were only three left, and they were a large force at one point, so I wonder if we'll see any more of the sisterhood return to avenge their fallen after their encounter with Josh, Sophie et al in Paris?

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#13 [url]

Jan 25 10 8:00 PM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ January 24, 2010 06:42 pm)
I wonder if we will see a return of the Shield Maidens? It was never said that there were only three left, and they were a large force at one point, so I wonder if we'll see any more of the sisterhood return to avenge their fallen after their encounter with Josh, Sophie et al in Paris?

Exactly what I was thinking. The other Disir were so enthused about getting revenge on Scatty for what she did, I would be really surprised if any of the Disir left didn't want to get revenge on Sophie and Josh.

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#14 [url]

Jan 30 10 2:05 AM

From what i remember, the Valkyries are like Odin's servants. They go to the battle field and choose among the fallen warriors, those that are chosen are taken back to a certain hall Asgard and are trained to prepare for Ragnarok. Brynhild is one of the Valkyries cast out by Odin for falling in love with a mortal.

In my opinoin they are like angels serving god.

But if the Valkyries are working for Dee's Elder, is it possible that his Elder is a Norse God, Odin himself maybe?

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#15 [url]

Jan 30 10 4:37 AM

QUOTE (Lily Quentin @ January 29, 2010 10:05 pm)
From what i remember, the Valkyries are like Odin's servants. They go to the battle field and choose among the fallen warriors, those that are chosen are taken back to a certain hall Asgard and are trained to prepare for Ragnarok. Brynhild is one of the Valkyries cast out by Odin for falling in love with a mortal.

In my opinoin they are like angels serving god.

But if the Valkyries are working for Dee's Elder, is it possible that his Elder is a Norse God, Odin himself maybe?

That's actually a very plausible theory (and one that I have considered) but, and I'm sorry to contradict you, but the Shieldmaidens mention that they are independent and work for no one, and also Michael has confirmed that Odin does make an appearance.
So Odin could very well be Dee's master, but the Valkyrie's have naught to do with him.

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#16 [url]

Jan 30 10 2:20 PM

QUOTE (silvertouch @ January 30, 2010 05:37 am)
QUOTE (Lily Quentin @ January 29, 2010 10:05 pm)
From what i remember, the Valkyries are like Odin's servants. They go to the battle field and choose among the fallen warriors, those that are chosen are taken back to a certain hall Asgard and are trained to prepare for Ragnarok. Brynhild is one of the Valkyries cast out by Odin for falling in love with a mortal.

In my opinoin they are like angels serving god.

But if the Valkyries are working for Dee's Elder, is it possible that his Elder is a Norse God, Odin himself maybe?

That's actually a very plausible theory (and one that I have considered) but, and I'm sorry to contradict you, but the Shieldmaidens mention that they are independent and work for no one, and also Michael has confirmed that Odin does make an appearance.
So Odin could very well be Dee's master, but the Valkyrie's have naught to do with him.

yes they do have something to do with odin cause in one part of the book one of them crys out for odin. they they must have serve him or something.

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#17 [url]

Jan 30 10 4:10 PM

I think the disir worship Odin, not serve him. It might be similar to the japanese who screamed BANZAI! during WWII. BANZAI means 10000 years, and the japanese say it because they want the japanese to last for 10000 years. I just think they are thanking Odin for their kill.

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#18 [url]

Feb 11 10 5:05 PM

QUOTE (areop enapophobia @ January 30, 2010 12:10 pm)
I think the disir worship Odin, not serve him. It might be similar to the japanese who screamed BANZAI! during WWII. BANZAI means 10000 years, and the japanese say it because they want the japanese to last for 10000 years. I just think they are thanking Odin for their kill.

Right, or a form of homage.

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#19 [url]

Feb 15 10 5:34 PM

The Valkyries/Dsir whatever you want to call them were created by odin himself, making them next gen elders like scatty. So they do serve/worship him. That's how i think dee got them, his elder odin (I strongly feel that he is behind it and is dee's elder, I mention it in another thread with other possible big gods, being his elder. Odin fits so well its almost a no brainer. He is after all a well known god and the god of all gods in the Norse, and Germanic religions.), gave them to him. They may say they serve no one for 2 reasons

1. Odin gives them free reign, but must do favors for him
2. They are extremely cocky and ment they follow no one but Odin.

Just my thoughts, but yes, being created by an elder would make them an elder of sorts, like scatty.


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#20 [url]

Mar 4 10 11:51 PM

I think they're next gen.
Maybe Flamel and friends will go to the Arctic and the Disir's sisters will try to kill everybody.

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