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#41 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:01 PM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 03, 2009 09:57 pm)
QUOTE
I also have a theory that Flamel actually is with an elder, I remember several times this is mentioned, "Flamel never tells anyone the whole truth." maybe he might be with an elder, just not formally serve him/her.
I don't think that Flamel is allied with an Elder, but that doesn't mean he isn't up to something. In fact, I think I read somewhere that the author, Michael Scott, said something to the effect of 'not trusting Flamel'.

Actually, here's a quote that I've come across from here:

QUOTE (Michael Scott)
No. Immortality is a specific gift. There are three ways to become immortal - here's a quote from the book (I'm using the original manscript which might differ ever so slightly from the printed book.)
Over the centuries, the Flamels had come into contact with three entirely different types of immortal humans. There were the Ancients – now perhaps no more than a handful still alive - who hailed from Earth’s very distant past. Some had witnessed the entire span of human history and it had made them more, and less, than human.

Then there were a few others who, like Nicholas and Perenelle, had discovered for themselves how to become immortal. Down through the millennia, the secrets of alchemy had been discovered, lost and rediscovered countless times. One of the greatest secrets of alchemy was the formula for immortality. And all alchemy – and possibly even modern science – had one single source: the Book of Abraham the Mage.

Then there were those who had been given the gift of immortality. These were humans who had, either accidentally or deliberately, come to the attention of one or other of the Elders who had remained in this world after the Fall of Danu Talis. The Elders were always on the look-out for people of exceptional or unusual ability to recruit to their cause. And in return for their service, the Elders granted their followers extended life. It was a gift very few humans could refuse. It was also a gift that ensured absolute, unswerving loyalty ... because it could be withdrawn as quickly as it had been given.

OH ok, because I thought it was Nicholas that said they weren't with an elder, but since it was Michael, that makes more sense now.

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#42 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:03 PM

It doesn't mean Nicholas isn't up to something. Even Scatty told the twins to only trust one another.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#43 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:05 PM

That's very true, I mean he has shown a lot of interest in them, maybe he's planing something.
But that definately doesn't mean we can trust Dee...
So who can we trust 100%?

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

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#44 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:14 PM

QUOTE (Ectw101 @ January 03, 2009 10:05 pm)
That's very true, I mean he has shown a lot of interest in them, maybe he's planing something.
But that definately doesn't mean we can trust Dee...
So who can we trust 100%?

Like Scatty said "Don't trust anyone"

Destiny is what we work towards. The future doesn't exist yet. Fate is for losers.


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#45 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:16 PM

Ya, I mean I don't think we can even fully trust the twins! But do you really believe that it's One to destroy the world, one to save? If I remember correctly, it was only Dee and Flamel who said that, what if it was a misinterpritation. Hekate also said that Abraham was wrong about a couple things.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

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#46 [url]

Jan 3 09 10:29 PM

QUOTE (Ectw101 @ January 03, 2009 04:16 pm)
Ya, I mean I don't think we can even fully trust the twins! But do you really believe that it's One to destroy the world, one to save? If I remember correctly, it was only Dee and Flamel who said that, what if it was a misinterpritation. Hekate also said that Abraham was wrong about a couple things.

Well, yes in a way. It's a universal plot point: We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided. {HP} The Fellowship stands on the brink, stray but a little...{LoTR}

The point being is there can be a break which leads to death/destruction or there can be strength through unification which leads to triumph and victory.

Then we have the bit read from the Codex: "The two that are one...the one that is all."

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#47 [url]

Jan 4 09 12:26 PM

Yes the two that are one....that sounds like it should be that they both are one, and their decisions are one....the one that is all, i'll complete that phrase....the two that are one....the one that is all that the humanity has....that is my interpretation....

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#48 [url]

Jan 15 09 11:58 PM

I wonder how many years had passed between Nick and Francis seeing one another? Was it a year or three...a century...or more than a century?

The last time Nick saw Francis, he'd known him to have some small talent with fire, but nothing like he displayed at the Eiffel Tower.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#49 [url]

Jan 16 09 12:06 AM

QUOTE (baksh @ January 04, 2009 12:26 pm)
Yes the two that are one....that sounds like it should be that they both are one, and their decisions are one....the one that is all, i'll complete that phrase....the two that are one....the one that is all that the humanity has....that is my interpretation....

All I'm saying, is what if the characters in the books are missinterpreting the prophecy, what if they assume that one is to destroy, and one is to save, but that's not really what it means.

"Life is not the amount of breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

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#50 [url]

Jan 16 09 5:50 PM

QUOTE (Ectw101 @ January 15, 2009 06:06 pm)
QUOTE (baksh @ January 04, 2009 12:26 pm)
Yes the two that are one....that sounds like it should be that they both are one, and their decisions are one....the one that is all, i'll complete that phrase....the two that are one....the one that is all that the humanity has....that is my interpretation....

All I'm saying, is what if the characters in the books are missinterpreting the prophecy, what if they assume that one is to destroy, and one is to save, but that's not really what it means.

The prophecy itself is obscure enough to have varied meanings and it's obvious that it means different things to different people within the story.
We still don't know that Josh/Sophie are the twins of legend. I think they are, and I think the 'the two that are one' is that almost tangible psychic link that Josh/Sophie have shown {she knows when he's lying, she knows when he's physically hurt, she knows when he's in extreme danger}, and the 'become the one that is all' is possibly a linking of minds/power {much as the Morrigan did with her sisters}. The twins as separate intellectual entities are incredibly powerful, full of 'wild, untrained magic', and both have now exuded magic in a way that all but the strongest Elders are unable to do. What happens if they link up mentally?
Course that calls into question whether one has to die...and if afterwards, the other can separate the joined psyches and resurrect the body of the other twin. Okay, well, it sounded good kicking it around in my brain, but in print it seems way too farfetched. That's why I'm not a writer.
In another re-read of the books, Nick is thinking to himself that he has to "get the Codex back" and then corrects that to getting "the rest of the Codex back". Which made me a little leary of him. I know he's had the book for 600 years, and needs to book for immortality for himself and Perry, but that little correction didn't sit well. If he got "the rest of it back" he'd have the recipe. But to just get the Codex back implies he's not ready to retire as the book's guardian and hand the book over to the rightful owner(s).
Maybe I'm just placing too much emphasis on this incidence.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#51 [url]

Jan 16 09 6:17 PM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 16, 2009 11:50 am)

In another re-read of the books, Nick is thinking to himself that he has to "get the Codex back" and then corrects that to getting "the rest of the Codex back".  Which made me a little leary of him.  I know he's had the book for 600 years, and needs to book for immortality for himself and Perry, but that little correction didn't sit well.  If he got "the rest of it back" he'd have the recipe.  But to just get the Codex back implies he's not ready to retire as the book's guardian and hand the book over to the rightful owner(s).

Maybe I'm just placing too much emphasis on this incidence.

no actually i think its really smart to look for inconsistencies, that is often the best way to flush out liars. And not persay that flamel is a liar, but maybe that he's hiding something or not telling the whole truth. I mean we already known he doesnt tell the twins everything and then they over hear something after the fact that suggests flamel knew more than he originally let onto. So it could be a case of flamel lying or hiding the truth but it also may be an indication of him not having 100% settled on what he thinks his agenda should be, much in the way Mars couldnt read machiavelli's intentions.

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#52 [url]

Jan 16 09 8:23 PM

I wonder if the Codex is the traditional 21 page book that the historical Nicholas Flamel came upon? Or if the Codex has more/less pages.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#53 [url]

Jan 16 09 9:58 PM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 16, 2009 02:23 pm)
I wonder if the Codex is the traditional 21 page book that the historical Nicholas Flamel came upon?  Or if the Codex has more/less pages.

We know there are at least 14 pages in the Codex in The Magician (p. 83 e-book):

QUOTE
The one-handed man had revealed that the secret of Life Eternal always appeared on page seven of the Codex at the full moon, while the recipe for transmutation, for changing the composition of any material, appeared only on page fourteen.

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#55 [url]

Jan 17 09 12:21 AM

QUOTE (LunaAquaVirgo @ January 16, 2009 09:58 pm)
QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 16, 2009 02:23 pm)
I wonder if the Codex is the traditional 21 page book that the historical Nicholas Flamel came upon?  Or if the Codex has more/less pages.

We know there are at least 14 pages in The Magician (p. 83 e-book):

QUOTE
The one-handed man had revealed that the secret of Life Eternal always appeared on page seven of the Codex at the full moon, while the recipe for transmutation, for changing the composition of any material, appeared only on page fourteen.

Well, than would you think that if the words in the Codex move, than each physical page would be several pages in reality? So if there were 300 pages, than there might be like 1000 real pages, a couple on each page.

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#57 [url]

Jan 17 09 8:53 PM

Well, even having the ability to decipher some of the Codex, Flamel believed it would take 'several lifetimes' to translate the whole thing. So I'd say if it takes several lifetimes to translate a 21 page book {assuming the Codex is 21 pages long}, it's gotta be like a large computer database of knowledge, as opposed to a normal 1000 page book.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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#58 [url]

Jan 18 09 12:11 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 17, 2009 08:53 pm)
Well, even having the ability to decipher some of the Codex, Flamel believed it would take 'several lifetimes' to translate the whole thing. So I'd say if it takes several lifetimes to translate a 21 page book {assuming the Codex is 21 pages long}, it's gotta be like a large computer database of knowledge, as opposed to a normal 1000 page book.

So would you agree that each physical page is several pages of information?

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Zephfire

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#59 [url]

Jan 18 09 12:28 AM

QUOTE (JoyeuseOne @ January 17, 2009 09:53 pm)
Well, even having the ability to decipher some of the Codex, Flamel believed it would take 'several lifetimes' to translate the whole thing. So I'd say if it takes several lifetimes to translate a 21 page book {assuming the Codex is 21 pages long}, it's gotta be like a large computer database of knowledge, as opposed to a normal 1000 page book.

Maybe it isn't the amount of pages, but the amount of information on them that takes so long to decode, the codex is written in an ancient magical language, with characters that move, that alone could make finding the part that you had attempted to translate the day before, difficult to find the next day!

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#60 [url]

Jan 18 09 1:33 AM

Yeah, I'd agree. The writing appears on page and then changes every hour on the hour, day after day, year after year. Nothing says that it would be the same thing either.
Knowing how many written languages exist today, and realizing that there are still over 2000 spoken languages and dialects with no written form, it's really daunting to try and decipher a book that continually changes.

Nosce Te Ipsum/Know Thyself - One joy shatters a hundred griefs.
The promise given was a necessity of the past: the word broken is a necessity of the present. - Niccolo Machiavelli
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die. - H.P. Lovecraft
A prince never lacks legitimate reasons to break his promise. - Niccolo Machiavelli
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