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Zephfire

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Aug 20 09 1:29 AM

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The Goddess of three faces, she awakened Sophie while the twins were staying in Yggdrasil with her. She had ties with the Torc clans and had nurtured her Yggdrasil from when it was a seed. Ancient and powerful, she was defeated and killed when Dee invaded with Bastet. What are your thoughts on this ancient Elder?
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Aug 20 09 8:47 AM

Hekate is one of the more powerful Elders seeing as a few Next Gen and immortals feared her, even Bastet was no match to her. We know that she was worshiped by the Torc clans as their goddess because she nutrured them and possibly made them herself. why did she creat the Torc clans? and what happened between her and Bastet that made the later want to pick a fight w/ her?

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#2 [url]

Aug 20 09 7:59 PM

Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

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Spacecadet

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#3 [url]

Aug 20 09 8:01 PM

QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 02:59 pm)
Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

I believe that the morrigan is bastets niece and i think the morrigan is also hekate's niece

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#4 [url]

Aug 20 09 8:14 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:01 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 02:59 pm)
Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

I believe that the morrigan is bastets niece and i think the morrigan is also hekate's niece

Soo, wouldn't that make Bastet and Hekate sisters? Or sister-in-law? Now that is spooky to think about! What being could have possible given birth to a child with three faces and then a cat headed child. And if you've finished the Sorceress, you know that Mars is Bastet's little brother, so is he Hekate's little brother too? My goodness, who is fathering all these Elder children??

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#5 [url]

Aug 20 09 8:33 PM

QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 03:14 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:01 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 02:59 pm)
Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

I believe that the morrigan is bastets niece and i think the morrigan is also hekate's niece

Soo, wouldn't that make Bastet and Hekate sisters? Or sister-in-law? Now that is spooky to think about! What being could have possible given birth to a child with three faces and then a cat headed child. And if you've finished the Sorceress, you know that Mars is Bastet's little brother, so is he Hekate's little brother too? My goodness, who is fathering all these Elder children??

actually i think they are more like in-laws, as hekate is the witch's sister and the witch is married to mars, i think thats where that connection comes in.

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Aug 20 09 9:11 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:33 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 03:14 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:01 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 02:59 pm)
Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

I believe that the morrigan is bastets niece and i think the morrigan is also hekate's niece

Soo, wouldn't that make Bastet and Hekate sisters? Or sister-in-law? Now that is spooky to think about! What being could have possible given birth to a child with three faces and then a cat headed child. And if you've finished the Sorceress, you know that Mars is Bastet's little brother, so is he Hekate's little brother too? My goodness, who is fathering all these Elder children??

actually i think they are more like in-laws, as hekate is the witch's sister and the witch is married to mars, i think thats where that connection comes in.

Oh, i wasnt aware that Hekate and the Witch of Endor were sisters. Was that in the Magician? I've yet to read it.

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#7 [url]

Aug 22 09 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 09:11 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:33 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 03:14 pm)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 20, 2009 08:01 pm)
QUOTE (Augustin @ August 20, 2009 02:59 pm)
Didn't it say somewhere in the Alchemyst that Hekate, Bastet, and the Morrigan were all related? How does that work out?

I believe that the morrigan is bastets niece and i think the morrigan is also hekate's niece

Soo, wouldn't that make Bastet and Hekate sisters? Or sister-in-law? Now that is spooky to think about! What being could have possible given birth to a child with three faces and then a cat headed child. And if you've finished the Sorceress, you know that Mars is Bastet's little brother, so is he Hekate's little brother too? My goodness, who is fathering all these Elder children??

actually i think they are more like in-laws, as hekate is the witch's sister and the witch is married to mars, i think thats where that connection comes in.

Oh, i wasnt aware that Hekate and the Witch of Endor were sisters. Was that in the Magician? I've yet to read it.

it wasn't specifically mentioned. the Witch just says that something like they were blood related when she swore to avenge her. I also remember Hekate calling Bastet sister, but it would just mean they were sisters through marriage.

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#8 [url]

Aug 24 09 4:00 AM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 20, 2009 08:47 am)
Hekate is one of the more powerful Elders seeing as a few Next Gen and immortals feared her, even Bastet was no match to her. We know that she was worshiped by the Torc clans as their goddess because she nutrured them and possibly made them herself. why did she creat the Torc clans? and what happened between her and Bastet that made the later want to pick a fight w/ her?

I started talking about this a bit in The Archon thread, but I think that part of the reason Bastet and Hekate must have had a feud is because Bastet is part cat, and Hekate was doing experiments on animals. I think that is a good cause for a feud. Something else I was thinking was that we know that Hekate despised Abraham, calling him that old fool who made the Codex. We know that Hekate wanted both Abraham and the Book destroyed, and that she was an experimentor herself. Then I ran across this line in The Magician of a memory Sophie was having about Mars from Dora's perspective.

QUOTE
"...At the gates of an ancient city, the warrior in metal and leather stood alone against a vast horde of apelike beast-men while a column of refugees escaped through another gate."


Do these apelike beast-men sound like Hekate/Cernunnos' doing to you though to my knowledge they haven't shown up in any shown Torc clans? Or is it something else entirely?


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#9 [url]

Aug 26 09 7:50 PM

I posed my theory on the "Others" string as well (because of Cernunnos) but thought I might get my idea on this one too

I searched for the word Archon and found the following interesting ...

The generic term means "an authoritative figure or ruler" but when you dig deeper into ancient Greek you find "the term Archon refers to several servants of the Demiurge, the "creator god", that stood between the human race and a transcendent God ..." The Egyptian Gnostic Basilideans reference an archon as a set of spiritual beings and one included: Paraplex, Hekate, Ariouth (females), Typhon, and Iachtanabas (males).

Hekate was an Elder but is referenced as one of the spiritual beings in a set contained within a "servent". Could all the elders be individual now because of some catastrophic event to the servents? If that's true, Cernunnos could have been one of these servents and The Horned God be just one spiritual being. He kept the archon title because he is the ruler of The Wild Hunt.

Is that too crazy?

And now that I read about The Morrigan, Bastet, Mars, etc. maybe they are all considered brothers and sisters because they were all part of one whole???

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#10 [url]

Aug 30 09 5:41 PM

In my opinion I don't trust her.

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#11 [url]

Aug 30 09 6:02 PM

QUOTE (mrprecise @ August 30, 2009 05:41 pm)
In my opinion I don't trust her.

Why didn't you trust her? Do you think perhaps she isn't as gone as we thought?

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#12 [url]

Aug 30 09 6:31 PM

QUOTE (Melpomene @ August 30, 2009 06:02 pm)
QUOTE (mrprecise @ August 30, 2009 05:41 pm)
In my opinion I don't trust her.

Why didn't you trust her? Do you think perhaps she isn't as gone as we thought?

I think she is just a bit mysterious and until I know a bit more about her; I can't trust her.

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#13 [url]

Sep 7 09 6:43 PM

I was re-reading "The Alchemyst" in an attempt to create a character list and ran across something interesting on Pg. 114 ...

"Sophie drew breath to scream and Josh shouted and then Scathach was out of the SUV, an arrow notched to her bow, leveled at Hekate. Call them off, she shouted ....... The arrow was dipped in the blood of a Titan , Scathach said quietly, her voice carrying on the still air. One of your parents, if I remember correctly ? And one of the few ways left to slay you, I do believe."

Do you think the Titan in reference is from Greek, Egyptian or Norse mythology? Also, could these be the "Great Elders" Michael spoke of?

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#14 [url]

Sep 8 09 4:37 AM

QUOTE (Lucothea @ September 07, 2009 06:43 pm)
Also, could these be the "Great Elders" Michael spoke of?

Wow thank for finding this quote! Great find! Half of your qustion I can respond to with 12,000 other questions of my own.

This may be a bit tangential at first so bear with me, yes? From the races I have heard spoken of there are Archons, Great Elders, Elders, Next Generation Elders, and Humani. How they are all related is still a bit confusing to me, and where the Titans come in I am still unsure.
On Alcatraz Perry asks Areop-Enap who Dee's Edler is, and the conversation goes like this:
The Sorceress P. 382
QUOTE
"Someone old," Aerop-Enap said.  "As old as me or even older.  One of the Great Elders perhaps...But it cannot be; none of them survived the fall of Danu Talis."
"You did."
"I'm not one of the Great Elders," Areop-Enap said simply."


So the Great Elders are distinct from regular Elders and are presumed by A-E to be dead (though she seems to sleep through a lot of important stuff so I don't know if she can completely be trusted).
We also know that "Bastet was a First Generation Elder and one of the original rulers of Danu Talis (The Sorceress P.179)." And that "the Great Elders raised Danu Talis from the seabed (The Sorceress P.236)." Are the Ruling Elders, the Great Elders, and the First Generation Elders the same thing? And do the Titans fit in with The Archons or something else? I suppose there may be a clue in remembering what kind of an Elder Hekate was? Was she first generation? Because that would definitely lead credence to Dee's suspicions that the Archons may in fact be related to the Elders, and help us to figure out who the Titans really are.

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#15 [url]

Sep 8 09 5:50 AM

I asked my question because Michael made mention of a visual"family tree" and gave a list of categories. One was Elders and another Great Elders.
I was trying to create a spreadsheet of all the characters mentioned because I understand (he said in a thread somewhere) that no one mentioned in the books is without reason. So ... when I got to Hekate, it mentioned her parents being Titans and if she is an Elder, it stands to reason that her parents must be Great Elders.
From what I can find, her parents are Asteria and Perses and I believe they too are mentioned in one of the books.
And the tree begins ...

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#16 [url]

Sep 8 09 12:10 PM

That's right. I believe it was in the Alchemyst that it was said that Hekate was a "daughter of Perses and Asteria"

According to Greek mythology, Perses was the Titan of Destruction while his spouse Asteria was the Titaness of oracles, prophetic dreams, astrology and necromancy

Coincidentally the title of the next book is the Necromancer, right?

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#17 [url]

Sep 8 09 3:54 PM

Unfortunately, Michael already stated in The Necromancer thread that it's a man.

QUOTE (Michael Scott @ November 16, 2008 06:03 am)

OK, to put you all out of your misery!: the necromancer is ...male. Michael

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#18 [url]

Sep 9 09 6:41 AM

QUOTE (Lucy @ September 08, 2009 04:37 am)
I suppose there may be a clue in remembering what kind of an Elder Hekate was? Was she first generation? Because that would definitely lead credence to Dee's suspicions that the Archons may in fact be related to the Elders, and help us to figure out who the Titans really are.

I believe the Goddess was first generation like the other Elders who were already mentioned by name in the series.

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#19 [url]

Sep 9 09 1:48 PM

In re-reading The Alchemyst, it says on page 122
"Flamel drew in a deep breath and spoke formally in the ancient language of the sunken island of Danu Talis. Daughter of Perses and Asteria, you are the Goddess of Magic and Spells, I ask you to Awaken the twins' magical powers."

So, Perses and Asteria are her parents and they are Greek Titans. I believe that her parents are considered the Great Elders and Hekate is an Elder.

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#20 [url]

Sep 10 09 7:00 AM

yes, that'r right which leads me to think that the Titans were/are Great Elders, Hetake along w/ Bastet, Mars, Endor, Areop-Enap, Nereus are Firts Gen, and everyone born after the fall of Danu Talis falls in the Next Gen category

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