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#41 [url]

Aug 17 09 6:59 PM

I'm wondering if that is indeed supposed to be a symbol for Cernnunos, maybe we will be getting more info on Cernnunos; or that maybe in either a indirect or a direct way he may either help Dee or help Flamel and company.

I do find it interesting that this visage is in the top right corner of the cover, considering that in previous books, that area is in some way an introduction to a new character that can tip the balance one way or another...also except for Scatty, someone who has worked more or less for the Dark Elders.

I will say this though, if it is in fact Cernnunos, and by some kind of pattern we are going 1-2-2-1 (where 1 is the Flamel side and 2 is the Dark Elders), maybe Cernnunos will decide to side with the Flamels and the humani race...I mean it can really all go back to that old saying of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Archons and Elders fought for many years, with the Elders finally winning out....who knows.

If it is not Cernnunos, then my theory is complete *censored*. If it is him...very interesting.

Question: If it's not Cernnunos, who is it?

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Godsryche

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#42 [url]

Aug 17 09 7:04 PM

Assuming that it does in fact depict "The Green Man"

And it's a very common misconception that he and Cern. are the same being, it's probably a pretty safe bet to assume that "The Green Man" is also an Archon, yes?

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Spacecadet

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#43 [url]

Aug 17 09 7:14 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 02:04 pm)
Assuming that it does in fact depict "The Green Man"

And it's a very common misconception that he and Cern. are the same being, it's probably a pretty safe bet to assume that "The Green Man" is also an Archon, yes?

I was thinking this was a possibility as well, but im not sure as we know cernunnos acquired his particular looks after some experimentation, So its possible that this is one of cernunnos's test subjects, or another archon, or even a red herring some new character unrelated to cernunnos, but similar in appearance. But im leaning towards one of the first two options.

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#44 [url]

Aug 17 09 7:49 PM

it seems to me that its a woman the face is smooth the top right picture that is

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#45 [url]

Aug 17 09 7:59 PM

QUOTE (aquose @ August 17, 2009 03:49 pm)
it seems to me that its a woman the face is smooth the top right picture that is

What?

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dreamingofedward

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#46 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:21 PM

Some "Green Man" info - from one of the few places that did not list Cernunnos in the same breath:

GREEN MAN (The Hidden One - The Cylenchar) The next stage of the ecological revolution begins with the reawakening of the male counterpart of the Goddess, the Green Man, an archetype found in folklore and religious art from the earliest times, and especially linked with the Christian origins of modern science. Long suppressed, the archetype emerges now to challenge us to heal our relationship with nature. - It is likely that Green Man pillars were erected originally on the sites of sacred trees. The Green Man signifies irrepressible life. He is an image from the depths of prehistory: he appears and seems to die and then comes again after long forgettings at many periods in the past two thousand years. In his origins he is much elder than our Christian era. In all his appearances he is an image of renewal and rebirth. See also: JACK IN THE GREEN.

JACK IN THE GREEN (The Hidden One - The Cylenchar) The Woodland spirit who, like the Wood-Wose or Wild Herdsman, guards the greenwood. He appears in many kinds of folk art, as a multi-foliate head peering through the keaves. Like the Sheela na Gig, he was especially portrayed in church decoration, usually as a roof-boss, where he was a constant reminder of earlier beliefs.

Just FYI...

Interestingly, the same site I got that info from mentions Aoife being "turned into a witch of the air" - wonder if that could mean she could train Josh in Air magic? Assuming she is open to help given that she cam looking for what happened to her sister?!

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Godsryche

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#47 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:23 PM

I had seen somewhere else that "The Green Man" is also Robbin Goodfellow, or, as Shakespeare knew him - Puck (Midsummer Night's Dream)

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dreamingofedward

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#48 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:27 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 03:23 pm)
I had seen somewhere else that "The Green Man" is also Robbin Goodfellow, or, as Shakespeare knew him - Puck (Midsummer Night's Dream)

I also found a number of references to Sir Gawain as the Green Man - and we know that Sir Gawain is linked to Pally very directly - and therefore sort of indirectly to Excalibur...

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Godsryche

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#49 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:29 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 17, 2009 04:27 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 03:23 pm)
I had seen somewhere else that "The Green Man" is also Robbin Goodfellow, or, as Shakespeare knew him - Puck (Midsummer Night's Dream)

I also found a number of references to Sir Gawain as the Green Man - and we know that Sir Gawain is linked to Pally very directly - and therefore sort of indirectly to Excalibur...

Yeah The Green Knight is "thought" to be derived from the Green Man legends.

But more on the Puck thing that is sort of just coming into my mind...

Before I said that The Green Man would probably be an Archon because of the similarity to Cernunnos...but...

In Shakespeare's play, Puck is the servant to Oberon (King of the Faries)

So perhaps there's a bigger link there.

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#50 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:32 PM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 17, 2009 08:27 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 03:23 pm)
I had seen somewhere else that "The Green Man" is also Robbin Goodfellow, or, as Shakespeare knew him - Puck (Midsummer Night's Dream)

I also found a number of references to Sir Gawain as the Green Man - and we know that Sir Gawain is linked to Pally very directly - and therefore sort of indirectly to Excalibur...

In one of the earlier versions of the legend of Arthur, Sir Gawain also uses Excalibur. So he's related to it. And if my memory is correct the Green Man was one if his enemies.

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#51 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:34 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 11:59 am)
QUOTE (aquose @ August 17, 2009 03:49 pm)
it seems to me that its a woman the face is smooth the top right picture that is

What?

the top right hand image i think instead of a man it might be a woman

not to mention that its a character we at least learn about in book three

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Godsryche

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#52 [url]

Aug 17 09 8:34 PM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 17, 2009 04:32 pm)
QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 17, 2009 08:27 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 03:23 pm)
I had seen somewhere else that "The Green Man" is also Robbin Goodfellow, or, as Shakespeare knew him - Puck (Midsummer Night's Dream)

I also found a number of references to Sir Gawain as the Green Man - and we know that Sir Gawain is linked to Pally very directly - and therefore sort of indirectly to Excalibur...

In one of the earlier versions of the legend of Arthur, Sir Gawain also uses Excalibur. So he's related to it. And if my memory is correct the Green Man was one if his enemies.

not quite an enemy.

Morgana Le Fey cast a curse on another Knight (his name escapes me) that he would turn into the Green Man in an attempt to kill one of Arthur's best knight's (Gawain). The Green Knight spares Gawain's life because he proves to be the most honorable and trustworthy knight in the land.


And more still on Puck...If Puck is an Elder, perhaps he's Shakespeare's? or maybe the reason for Will's immortality?

While Puck is a servant, he's clearly one of the best characters in any of Will's plays.

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#53 [url]

Aug 18 09 2:20 AM

I don't know if it's true, but isn't Jack in the Green Norse? That might be interesting... We haven't directly met anyone Norse yet... We've only heard about Odin.

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#54 [url]

Aug 18 09 2:23 AM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 18, 2009 02:20 am)
I don't know if it's true, but isn't Jack in the Green Norse? That might be interesting... We haven't directly met anyone Norse yet... We've only heard about Odin.

But we have seen Yggdrasil, and heard about other shadowrealms like Nefilheim (I bet I spelled those wrong), and we've met the Valkyries. I wouldn't be surprised if Odin or some other Norse god/goddess shows up.

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#55 [url]

Aug 18 09 6:36 AM

QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 17, 2009 08:21 pm)
Some "Green Man" info - from one of the few places that did not list Cernunnos in the same breath:

GREEN MAN (The Hidden One - The Cylenchar) The next stage of the ecological revolution begins with the reawakening of the male counterpart of the Goddess, the Green Man, an archetype found in folklore and religious art from the earliest times, and especially linked with the Christian origins of modern science. Long suppressed, the archetype emerges now to challenge us to heal our relationship with nature. - It is likely that Green Man pillars were erected originally on the sites of sacred trees. The Green Man signifies irrepressible life. He is an image from the depths of prehistory: he appears and seems to die and then comes again after long forgettings at many periods in the past two thousand years. In his origins he is much elder than our Christian era. In all his appearances he is an image of renewal and rebirth. See also: JACK IN THE GREEN.

JACK IN THE GREEN  (The Hidden One - The Cylenchar) The Woodland spirit who, like the Wood-Wose or Wild Herdsman, guards the greenwood. He appears in many kinds of folk art, as a multi-foliate head peering through the keaves. Like the Sheela na Gig, he was especially portrayed in church decoration, usually as a roof-boss, where he was a constant reminder of earlier beliefs.

Just FYI...

Interestingly, the same site I got that info from mentions Aoife being "turned into a witch of the air" - wonder if that could mean she could train Josh in Air magic?  Assuming she is open to help given that she cam looking for what happened to her sister?!

says here that he is the male counterpart of the Goddess - Hekate. Certainly they have the same qualities. also relating him to the Wild Herdsmen also relating it to
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 17, 2009 08:34 pm)
And more still on Puck...If Puck is an Elder, perhaps he's Shakespeare's? or maybe the reason for Will's immortality?

While Puck is a servant, he's clearly one of the best characters in any of Will's plays.

it seems that these are related event, seeing as Shakespeare has command of the Gabriel Hound (also closely related to the Wild Hunt of Cernunnos) and w/ the Green Knight. he may very well be Shakespeare's Elder and connecting it to the Archon thread's discussion, perhaps Hekates mentor in bringing about the Alta clans.

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#56 [url]

Aug 18 09 3:53 PM

This is a very interesting cover indeed! This cover gives the high essence of things we havent seen before in the story. Also it aslo gives a strong feeling that someone importent to the story will die ... So now it makes people think who i will be. could it be Joan d' arc, scatty, saint germain or eaven bad guys!

CANT WAIT FOR THE BOOK !!!!

EDIT: Also about the man in the top right side of the book everyone is talking about .... dont forget about the water god neptune it kinda looks like him!

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#57 [url]

Aug 18 09 3:59 PM

I think we will see a lot of changes from the first three books. Mr. Scott said that this is like tow trilogy's'. So as we are starting the second half of the story or the second trilogy if you will, I'll bet the themes for the next three books will be a whole new theme-so to speak- than the first three.

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#58 [url]

Aug 18 09 11:05 PM

QUOTE (mr_mears @ August 18, 2009 03:59 pm)
I think we will see a lot of changes from the first three books. Mr. Scott said that this is like tow trilogy's'. So as we are starting the second half of the story or the second trilogy if you will, I'll bet the themes for the next three books will be a whole new theme-so to speak- than the first three.

Possibly. That would make predicting it even harder, won't it? Though, the first trilogy ended with Perenelle and Nicholas being reunited. The next step is to get the Codex... but how? We weren't given much, were we?

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#59 [url]

Aug 19 09 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 18, 2009 11:05 pm)
QUOTE (mr_mears @ August 18, 2009 03:59 pm)
I think we will see a lot of changes from the first three books. Mr. Scott said that this is like tow trilogy's'. So as we are starting the second half of the story or the second trilogy if you will, I'll bet the themes for the next three books will be a whole new theme-so to speak- than the first three.

Possibly. That would make predicting it even harder, won't it? Though, the first trilogy ended with Perenelle and Nicholas being reunited. The next step is to get the Codex... but how? We weren't given much, were we?

No, but that is what makes this process of research and debate that much more intresting. It's like we were just getting in a grove of the direction this was going then all of a sudden we have to change gears completly... LOVE IT!

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Fuzzbinn

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#60 [url]

Aug 19 09 1:59 AM

If we want to get the Codex, first we need to find out where it is... and who has it?

Dee?
His Elder[s]?
Machiavelli? (Be nice, but i'd love him to have it.)

But Fumm95, I'm not sure finding the Codex is the key here for the second half - it's stopping the Dark Elders, at any cost - possibly by stealing back another of the Treasures, or something...

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