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Godsryche

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#21 [url]

Aug 7 09 1:13 PM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 07, 2009 09:00 am)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 07, 2009 12:24 pm)
I think his invulnerability stems from him having no aura, whether or not he gave up his aura for invulnerability or not, I'm not sure.

But the aura is the life force, when it drains out, you die. If you have no aura, arguably you would have no life force, but Gilgamesh is immortal so he doesn't really need one...

So perhaps that spell in the very beginning of the Codex that he wanted is a spell that will grant him an/his aura. Maybe that's why the Flamel's didn't use that spell (because there are discussions on why they could use the one that spell that lets them have immortality without having to renew it.) It *censored* away your aura so you can remain immortal and "indestructable". Since both Nicholas and Perenelle need their auras to continue protecting themselves and others, they were reluctant to use that spell. Is that possible?

It makes sense.

Nick and Perry knew they needed their auras, so they couldn't give them up.

Gilgamesh figured "hey, i don't need an aura to use powers because I can't be killed anyways"

Either that, or he just figured the spell was for indestructibility and immortality and didn't realize the consequences of it until it was too late.

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#22 [url]

Aug 7 09 1:19 PM

QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 07, 2009 08:13 am)
QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 07, 2009 09:00 am)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 07, 2009 12:24 pm)
I think his invulnerability stems from him having no aura, whether or not he gave up his aura for invulnerability or not, I'm not sure.

But the aura is the life force, when it drains out, you die. If you have no aura, arguably you would have no life force, but Gilgamesh is immortal so he doesn't really need one...

So perhaps that spell in the very beginning of the Codex that he wanted is a spell that will grant him an/his aura. Maybe that's why the Flamel's didn't use that spell (because there are discussions on why they could use the one that spell that lets them have immortality without having to renew it.) It *censored* away your aura so you can remain immortal and "indestructable". Since both Nicholas and Perenelle need their auras to continue protecting themselves and others, they were reluctant to use that spell. Is that possible?

It makes sense.

Nick and Perry knew they needed their auras, so they couldn't give them up.

Gilgamesh figured "hey, i don't need an aura to use powers because I can't be killed anyways"

Either that, or he just figured the spell was for indestructibility and immortality and didn't realize the consequences of it until it was too late.

yes i agree with that but part of me kind of wonders if gilgamesh didnt really choose to be immortal, abraham just carried out the "spell" (or whatever is on that page of the codex) granting Gilgamesh immortality without his permission, maybe Gilgamesh never really wanted to be immortal.

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#23 [url]

Aug 7 09 1:41 PM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 07, 2009 01:19 pm)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 07, 2009 08:13 am)
QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 07, 2009 09:00 am)
QUOTE (Godsryche @ August 07, 2009 12:24 pm)
I think his invulnerability stems from him having no aura, whether or not he gave up his aura for invulnerability or not, I'm not sure.

But the aura is the life force, when it drains out, you die. If you have no aura, arguably you would have no life force, but Gilgamesh is immortal so he doesn't really need one...

So perhaps that spell in the very beginning of the Codex that he wanted is a spell that will grant him an/his aura. Maybe that's why the Flamel's didn't use that spell (because there are discussions on why they could use the one that spell that lets them have immortality without having to renew it.) It *censored* away your aura so you can remain immortal and "indestructable". Since both Nicholas and Perenelle need their auras to continue protecting themselves and others, they were reluctant to use that spell. Is that possible?

It makes sense.

Nick and Perry knew they needed their auras, so they couldn't give them up.

Gilgamesh figured "hey, i don't need an aura to use powers because I can't be killed anyways"

Either that, or he just figured the spell was for indestructibility and immortality and didn't realize the consequences of it until it was too late.

yes i agree with that but part of me kind of wonders if gilgamesh didnt really choose to be immortal, abraham just carried out the "spell" (or whatever is on that page of the codex) granting Gilgamesh immortality without his permission, maybe Gilgamesh never really wanted to be immortal.

New idea. What if Abraham wanted a guinea pig to test it on and he tried it on Gilgamesh? Just because Abraham came up with it doesn't mean he knows all the consequences. And now, it's too late...

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#24 [url]

Aug 8 09 7:18 AM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 07, 2009 12:13 pm)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 07, 2009 12:49 am)
QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 06, 2009 02:35 pm)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 06, 2009 08:16 am)
very interesting theory here, but wasn't it mention somewhere, maybe in the books that he never had an aura? and this was why Hekate thought he became the first guardian.


at the end of the Magician, in the preview for the Sorceress, it states "Gilgamesh also knows all the elemental magics, thought strangely, he never possessed the power to use them. The King has no aura."

I also think there is something different about how Gilgamesh is immortal. Since the other immortal humans are immortal - but not indestructible ("“You’re immortal, William, not invulnerable.” Machiavelli smiled." pg. 463 of the Sorceress; "Nothing—Elder, Next Generation,
immortal or human—was completely indestructible." pg. 76 of the Sorceress) - how is it that Gilgamesh is "impossible to kill" (Pally says that on pg. 459 of the Sorceress). We are told that the reason Gilgamesh was locked up in the 40s was because he wanted to be underneath the atomic bomb when it was set off because he figured it was the only way he could die.

So, got to figure out what the difference is....

hmm a lot of play in words here. it says 'has no aura' but doesn't say if he never had to begin with.

maybe Palamedes is just exaggerating. maybe he's almost indestructible, but not totally so

Do you think its possible that Gilgamesh gave up his aura to become indestructible in addition to become immortal or do you think the formula that abraham used to make gilgamesh immortal caused him to sacrifice his aura, but because of the nature of the immortality he also is invulnerable? Or maybe he is invulnerable because he has no aura, We know immortals can spontaneously combust if they overexert themselves and drain their aura, but if Gilgamesh has no aura then he cant spontaneously combust, which seems like one of the few ways immortals can die. So is this possibly one of the things that contributes to his supposed invulnerability.

Honestly, I don't think he gave up his aura to be indestructible. I think he didn't have an aura to begin w/ that's why he was chosen to become the first guardian - so he can't use the codex for gain. but Godsryche has a point, you can't be alive if you don't have an aura, also Michael did say every living thing has an aura, so I'm sort of inclined to accept Godsryche's argument that he may have exchanged it for being indestructible. but woudn't giving up you aura in the first place kill you in the process? i still haven't decided on this yet flamelssecret/goodsigh2.gif .

another theory in mind, it's a long shot but here goes: it was mentioned in book 3 that Archons did not use magic, but it was not mentioned whether they have an aura or not. If they don't have an aura, then would it be rational to think that Gilgamesh is not of the Humani race but of that more ancient race? when Abraham created the Codex, why should a humani be there? ofcourse, Abraham's race is also still debatable. flamelssecret/idk.gif

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#25 [url]

Aug 8 09 8:20 PM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 08, 2009 07:18 am)
QUOTE (Spacecadet @ August 07, 2009 12:13 pm)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 07, 2009 12:49 am)
QUOTE (dreamingofedward @ August 06, 2009 02:35 pm)
QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 06, 2009 08:16 am)
very interesting theory here, but wasn't it mention somewhere, maybe in the books that he never had an aura? and this was why Hekate thought he became the first guardian.


at the end of the Magician, in the preview for the Sorceress, it states "Gilgamesh also knows all the elemental magics, thought strangely, he never possessed the power to use them. The King has no aura."

I also think there is something different about how Gilgamesh is immortal. Since the other immortal humans are immortal - but not indestructible ("“You’re immortal, William, not invulnerable.” Machiavelli smiled." pg. 463 of the Sorceress; "Nothing—Elder, Next Generation,
immortal or human—was completely indestructible." pg. 76 of the Sorceress) - how is it that Gilgamesh is "impossible to kill" (Pally says that on pg. 459 of the Sorceress). We are told that the reason Gilgamesh was locked up in the 40s was because he wanted to be underneath the atomic bomb when it was set off because he figured it was the only way he could die.

So, got to figure out what the difference is....

hmm a lot of play in words here. it says 'has no aura' but doesn't say if he never had to begin with.

maybe Palamedes is just exaggerating. maybe he's almost indestructible, but not totally so

Do you think its possible that Gilgamesh gave up his aura to become indestructible in addition to become immortal or do you think the formula that abraham used to make gilgamesh immortal caused him to sacrifice his aura, but because of the nature of the immortality he also is invulnerable? Or maybe he is invulnerable because he has no aura, We know immortals can spontaneously combust if they overexert themselves and drain their aura, but if Gilgamesh has no aura then he cant spontaneously combust, which seems like one of the few ways immortals can die. So is this possibly one of the things that contributes to his supposed invulnerability.

Honestly, I don't think he gave up his aura to be indestructible. I think he didn't have an aura to begin w/ that's why he was chosen to become the first guardian - so he can't use the codex for gain. but Godsryche has a point, you can't be alive if you don't have an aura, also Michael did say every living thing has an aura, so I'm sort of inclined to accept Godsryche's argument that he may have exchanged it for being indestructible. but woudn't giving up you aura in the first place kill you in the process? i still haven't decided on this yet flamelssecret/goodsigh2.gif .

another theory in mind, it's a long shot but here goes: it was mentioned in book 3 that Archons did not use magic, but it was not mentioned whether they have an aura or not. If they don't have an aura, then would it be rational to think that Gilgamesh is not of the Humani race but of that more ancient race? when Abraham created the Codex, why should a humani be there? ofcourse, Abraham's race is also still debatable. flamelssecret/idk.gif

About Abraham's race. I think that in either the Alchemyst or the Magician, an Elder says that they could not touch the Codex, only humani can. They also said that Abraham would have thought that amusing, that only his children could touch it. If so, that makes it sound like Abraham is the first humani, of sorts. Can someone double check me on the facts; I don't own any of the books.

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#26 [url]

Aug 9 09 7:53 AM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 08, 2009 08:20 pm)
About Abraham's race.  I think that in either the Alchemyst or the Magician, an Elder says that they could not touch the Codex, only humani can.  They also said that Abraham would have thought that amusing, that only his children could touch it.  If so, that makes it sound like Abraham is the first humani, of sorts.  Can someone double check me on the facts; I don't own any of the books.

"Abraham" in Hebrew meant something along the lines of, "The Father Of All Nations".

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Tsk, but maybe taking religion into this wouldn't be so wise...

**Quite right, it wasn't, which is why your comment was removed, bringing in modern religions is a violation of COC rules and if you do so again, will result in a warning increase being issued**

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#27 [url]

Aug 9 09 11:45 AM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 08, 2009 08:20 pm)

About Abraham's race.  I think that in either the Alchemyst or the Magician, an Elder says that they could not touch the Codex, only humani can.  They also said that Abraham would have thought that amusing, that only his children could touch it.  If so, that makes it sound like Abraham is the first humani, of sorts.  Can someone double check me on the facts; I don't own any of the books.

that's exactly where I got the theory that Gilgamesh maybe Abraham's son. but it was never mentioned that he touched the book himself. transcribed it, but in theory, he can do so by imagining it, he need not look at it nor touch it. or he was an while transcribing it the Elders can still touch it and look at it but he made a spell after to prevent them from laying their hands on it ever again - this would be amusing don't you think?

**EDIT**

In the Members Research Photos thread, Michael pinpointed the exact location where we first met the King. It was a few feet away from the Buxton Memorial Fountain. what's his connection w/ the monument?

according to Wiki
QUOTE
The Buxton Memorial Fountain is a memorial in London, the United Kingdom, that commemorates the emancipation of slaves in the British Empire in 1834.

It was commissioned by Charles Buxton MP, dedicated to his father Thomas Fowell Buxton and also William Wilberforce, Thomas Clarkson, Thomas Babington Macaulay, Henry Brougham and Stephen Lushington, all involved in the abolition. It was designed by Gothic architect Samuel Sanders Teulon (1812-1873) in 1865 coincidently with the passing of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which effectively ended the western slave-trade.[1]

and the original design included 8 figures in bronze, representing different rulers of England from Caractacus (Briton) ending w/ Queen Victoria.

In the King's mind, does it symbolyze the Humani's emancipation from the Elders after the Fall of Danu Talis or is it something else? any thoughts?

**You know better then to double post!**

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#28 [url]

Aug 13 09 2:11 AM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 09, 2009 07:45 am)
QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 08, 2009 08:20 pm)

About Abraham's race.  I think that in either the Alchemyst or the Magician, an Elder says that they could not touch the Codex, only humani can.  They also said that Abraham would have thought that amusing, that only his children could touch it.  If so, that makes it sound like Abraham is the first humani, of sorts.  Can someone double check me on the facts; I don't own any of the books.

that's exactly where I got the theory that Gilgamesh maybe Abraham's son. but it was never mentioned that he touched the book himself. transcribed it, but in theory, he can do so by imagining it, he need not look at it nor touch it. or he was an while transcribing it the Elders can still touch it and look at it but he made a spell after to prevent them from laying their hands on it ever again - this would be amusing don't you think?

**EDIT**

In the Members Research Photos thread, Michael pinpointed the exact location where we first met the King. It was a few feet away from the Buxton Memorial Fountain. what's his connection w/ the monument?

according to Wiki
QUOTE
The Buxton Memorial Fountain is a memorial in London, the United Kingdom, that commemorates the emancipation of slaves in the British Empire in 1834.

It was commissioned by Charles Buxton MP, dedicated to his father Thomas Fowell Buxton and also William Wilberforce, Thomas Clarkson, Thomas Babington Macaulay, Henry Brougham and Stephen Lushington, all involved in the abolition. It was designed by Gothic architect Samuel Sanders Teulon (1812-1873) in 1865 coincidently with the passing of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which effectively ended the western slave-trade.[1]

and the original design included 8 figures in bronze, representing different rulers of England from Caractacus (Briton) ending w/ Queen Victoria.

In the King's mind, does it symbolyze the Humani's emancipation from the Elders after the Fall of Danu Talis or is it something else? any thoughts?

**You know better then to double post!**

Niiiiiiiiiice! Um, I think that would only represent part of it because the Elders (some) ate humani. So it would be more appropriate if another statue was beside it with humans running off a giant plate

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#29 [url]

Aug 13 09 3:52 AM

QUOTE (silvertouch @ August 13, 2009 02:11 am)
Niiiiiiiiiice! Um, I think that would only represent part of it because the Elders (some) ate humani. So it would be more appropriate if another statue was beside it with humans running off a giant plate

Elder's did snack on the Humani from time to time,but the great number of Humani was enslaved.

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#30 [url]

Aug 14 09 8:46 AM

I am reading the Sorceress now (again) and I came across a few interesting things about Gilgamesh

QUOTE
Gilgamesh, ageless and unchanging,
Gilgamesh, standing tall and proud, a ruler, in the costumes of a dozen ages and as many civilizations: Sumerian and Akkadian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and then the fur and leather of Gaul and Britain.
Gilgamesh the warrior, leading Celts and Vikings, Rus and Huns into battle against men and monsters


This last sentence suggest that Gilgamesh didnt went insane untill relative recent years. My question is when did Gilgamesh went insane?

Alright, the next quote::
QUOTE
We met a long time ago, he said finally, when I was young, young, young. Then his blue eyes clouded. No thats not right. I saw you fight and fall... His voice caught and suddenly his eyes shone with tears. His voice went raw with pain. I saw you both die.

Its seems to me that Gilgamesh cared deeply for the orginal twins (I think thats who he is talking about) Why does he cares so much for them? I believe because he is at the very least related to them. Here is why I think that:
1. The race of the orginal twins isnt given (correct me if i am wrong)
2. Sophie said Gilgamesh remindend her of her father
3. If the orginal twins were (or are) Elders, then how did their genes end up in humani?

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#31 [url]

Aug 14 09 4:00 PM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 14, 2009 08:46 am)
I am reading the Sorceress now (again) and I came across a few interesting things about Gilgamesh
QUOTE
Gilgamesh, ageless and unchanging,
Gilgamesh, standing tall and proud, a ruler, in the costumes of a dozen ages and as many civilizations: Sumerian and Akkadian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and then the fur and leather of Gaul and Britain.
Gilgamesh the warrior, leading Celts and Vikings, Rus and Huns into battle against men and monsters


This last sentence suggest that Gilgamesh didnt went insane untill relative recent years. My question is when did Gilgamesh went insane?

Alright, the next quote::
QUOTE
We met a long time ago, he said finally, when I was young, young, young. Then his blue eyes clouded. No thats not right. I saw you fight and fall... His voice caught and suddenly his eyes shone with tears. His voice went raw with pain. I saw you both die.

Its seems to me that Gilgamesh cared deeply for the orginal twins (I think thats who he is talking about) Why does he cares so much for them? I believe because he is at the very least related to them. Here is why I think that:
1. The race of the orginal twins isnt given (correct me if i am wrong)
2. Sophie said Gilgamesh remindend her of her father
3. If the orginal twins were (or are) Elders, then how did their genes end up in humani?

Well, for the last bit, didn't Nicholas say that the twins were descended from the gods, which implies that they aren't humani? It was in the Sorceress, when they were talking about how they were pulled into it all and Nicholas said that they were the twins of prphecy not because they happened to have silver/gold auras but because it was in their genes.

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#32 [url]

Aug 14 09 7:28 PM

QUOTE (Fumm95 @ August 14, 2009 04:00 pm)
QUOTE (sancrates @ August 14, 2009 08:46 am)
I am reading the Sorceress now (again) and I came across a few interesting things about Gilgamesh
QUOTE
Gilgamesh, ageless and unchanging,
Gilgamesh, standing tall and proud, a ruler, in the costumes of a dozen ages and as many civilizations: Sumerian and Akkadian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and then the fur and leather of Gaul and Britain.
Gilgamesh the warrior, leading Celts and Vikings, Rus and Huns into battle against men and monsters


This last sentence suggest that Gilgamesh didnt went insane untill relative recent years. My question is when did Gilgamesh went insane?

Alright, the next quote::
QUOTE
We met a long time ago, he said finally, when I was young, young, young. Then his blue eyes clouded. No thats not right. I saw you fight and fall... His voice caught and suddenly his eyes shone with tears. His voice went raw with pain. I saw you both die.

Its seems to me that Gilgamesh cared deeply for the orginal twins (I think thats who he is talking about) Why does he cares so much for them? I believe because he is at the very least related to them. Here is why I think that:
1. The race of the orginal twins isnt given (correct me if i am wrong)
2. Sophie said Gilgamesh remindend her of her father
3. If the orginal twins were (or are) Elders, then how did their genes end up in humani?

Well, for the last bit, didn't Nicholas say that the twins were descended from the gods, which implies that they aren't humani? It was in the Sorceress, when they were talking about how they were pulled into it all and Nicholas said that they were the twins of prphecy not because they happened to have silver/gold auras but because it was in their genes.

I believe it means that the orginal twins were (or are) humani

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#33 [url]

Aug 14 09 8:25 PM

There is a theory that Mars Children were the origional twins... that would make the origionals not Humani.

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#34 [url]

Aug 14 09 8:50 PM

I don't think so. In Roman mythology Remus and Romulus were raised by a wolf and founded Rome around 700 B.C. One of them killed the other in the battle for power. And their mother was a humani woman, so that will make them atleast part humani or just humani but with somenthing expectional (I'm thinking Heracles here)

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#35 [url]

Aug 15 09 4:00 AM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 14, 2009 08:50 pm)
I don't think so. In Roman mythology Remus and Romulus were raised by a wolf and founded Rome around 700 B.C. One of them killed the other in the battle for power.
Doesn't sound like the Sun and the Moon twins

But to me it does sound like a possible harbinger for events to come with Sophie and Josh. Mars asked Josh if he wanted to be Awakened, saying that it would be his choice to make. Mars continued to ask if Josh loved his twin and he said that he did. Mars then related that Romulus and Remus loved each other dearly and were very close until the time that they were Awakened. After they were Changed their relationship was no longer what it once was and then Romulus, the younger of the twins killed his brother Remus...

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#36 [url]

Aug 17 09 5:53 AM

QUOTE (sancrates @ August 14, 2009 08:46 am)
I am reading the Sorceress now (again) and I came across a few interesting things about Gilgamesh
QUOTE
Gilgamesh, ageless and unchanging,
Gilgamesh, standing tall and proud, a ruler, in the costumes of a dozen ages and as many civilizations: Sumerian and Akkadian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, and then the fur and leather of Gaul and Britain.
Gilgamesh the warrior, leading Celts and Vikings, Rus and Huns into battle against men and monsters


This last sentence suggest that Gilgamesh didnt went insane untill relative recent years. My question is when did Gilgamesh went insane?

I don't think it was ever mentioned, but he believes that the cause of his insanity is a flaw in immortality spell when he was bestowed it

QUOTE (mr_mears @ August 14, 2009 08:25 pm)
There is a theory that Mars Children were the origional twins... that would make the origionals not Humani.

the thing is, Mars had twin sons, and Gilgamesh mentioned that the Silver twin was a she, whe she cried silver tears for him.

Also, the original twins needs to be Elders or else no other Elder will allow their rule since they were "the Ruling Twins"

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#37 [url]

Aug 17 09 9:21 AM

QUOTE (Moviebuff @ August 17, 2009 05:53 am)
Also, the original twins needs to be Elders or else no other Elder will allow their rule since they were "the Ruling Twins"

But what are they ruling? Is that specified?

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#39 [url]

Aug 20 09 12:11 AM

You know, when I first imagined him I saw some guy in a royal scene and stuff, but was completely loopy, with weird mood swings. But nooooooooooo. I have to see a hobo!

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#40 [url]

Aug 20 09 8:57 AM

QUOTE (silvertouch @ August 20, 2009 12:11 am)
You know, when I first imagined him I saw some guy in a royal scene and stuff, but was completely loopy, with weird mood swings. But nooooooooooo. I have to see a hobo!

he had those royal moments, he wasn't as crazy as he is now in the past millenias i bet. remember the images of him as ruler of ancient civilizations?

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