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Zephfire

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Jul 7 09 1:47 AM

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The bard lives..and has been an apprentice to both Nicholas and Dr Dee..so which side is he on?
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#1 [url]

Jul 7 09 1:55 AM

QUOTE (Zephfire @ July 06, 2009 05:47 pm)
The bard lives..and has been an apprentice to both Nicholas and Dr Dee..so which side is he on?

well its obvious that he despises Dee but he also is I do thinks that the elders return would not be so bad. he and Palamedes and Germain are the only inmortales we've meet who eat meat.

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Spacecadet

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#2 [url]

Jul 7 09 2:12 AM

QUOTE (aquose @ July 06, 2009 08:55 pm)
QUOTE (Zephfire @ July 06, 2009 05:47 pm)
The bard lives..and has been an apprentice to both Nicholas and Dr Dee..so which side is he on?

well its obvious that he despises Dee but he also is I do thinks that the elders return would not be so bad. he and Palamedes and Germain are the only inmortales we've meet who eat meat.

hmm thats a very interesting point... maybe it has to do with how they became immortal... we still dont know how any of the three of them became immortal.

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#3 [url]

Jul 7 09 6:22 AM

Did Shakespear become immortal the same time Dee did?

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#4 [url]

Jul 7 09 8:56 AM

QUOTE (budgge @ July 07, 2009 06:22 am)
Did Shakespear become immortal the same time Dee did?

if immortality was given to him then it might have been a neutral elder.

he was an apprentice to both Dee and Nicholas but he was still young when Dee took him in so if he learned alchemy he only learned a bit from Flamel.

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#5 [url]

Jul 7 09 9:09 AM

that doesnt answer my question...
-scratches head-

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#6 [url]

Jul 7 09 9:15 AM

sorry about that. it is possible he did, i think he was already immortal when Dee "killed" his son, so immortality might have been given to him by some Elder.

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#7 [url]

Jul 7 09 12:32 PM

Well we know there is a specific immortality spell in addition to the potion that nicholas brews monthly, maybe when Shakespeare studied under Flamel he some how learned to interpret and use that spell. Or maybe he imagined his own immortality (we know he says at the heart of all magic is imagination)... but maybe thats a bit on the far fetched side.

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#8 [url]

Jul 7 09 12:34 PM

No I like it...
Because he is a powerful - what I would call - enchanter... maybe he though himself immortal when he was at his strongest and it became true...?

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#9 [url]

Jul 8 09 6:21 AM

QUOTE (Spacecadet @ July 07, 2009 12:32 pm)
Well we know there is a specific immortality spell in addition to the potion that nicholas brews monthly, maybe when Shakespeare studied under Flamel he some how learned to interpret and use that spell.  Or maybe he imagined his own immortality (we know he says at the heart of all magic is imagination)... but maybe thats a bit on the far fetched side.

we don't know this for a fact yet but i think he studied very little alchemy w/ Nicholas.

he might be able to do that, but wouldn't that be categorized as a spell? and you need a certain amount of aura to keep the spell working. I think heperfected his own immortality potion if he wasn't gifted immortality by an Elder

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#10 [url]

Jul 10 09 6:34 PM

I just found out something interesting while looking at the Wikipedia page on Iris, the rainbow goddess that gave Flamel his magic bracelet. Apparently, she appeared in Shakespeare's The Tempest. I haven't read The Tempest, but I thought Iris' presence in one of Shakespeare's plays was a very interesting fact.

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#12 [url]

Jul 20 09 10:43 PM

little fun fact about the Bard.

In the Alchemyst Nicholas and the twin are talking about Hamlet and The Tempest.
Then Scathach muttered, "I never liked Shakespeare he smelled.

Then when the twins meet him in the Sorceress, they were almost knock out by is body oder.

I thought Scathach hate him, but it looks like he realy smells

Anyway i think he is a great character and i thin his role in the story is going to be bigger then we think.

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#13 [url]

Jul 26 09 5:04 AM

I may be one of the only people who have even considered this and stuck with it. But, I think that Will might be a possible candidate for the Necromancer, considering he did study under Dee for some time.

My brother is better attuned with Necromancy than I am as far as I'm concerned and he said that being a Necromancer doesn't mean you have to be evil at all, he can just call up the dead and stuff like that. But when I mentioned my theory, he just laughed at me... He's never read the books, so I'm not really worried what my bro has to say.

It's been a while since I've read The Sorceress, and I may have my facts off a bit, so I'll have to re-read it sooner or later, but Michael did say that the Necromancer is male, you know him by the end of the third book (if I remember correctly, Will first came in the third book), and he's acting differently. It was said that Will was indeed acting differently in the book, but that might just be a coincidence and I'm completely of my rocker. flamelssecret/crazy.gif

I haven't read all the comments in the "The Necromancer" topic, so this may have already been mentioned and discarded as folly, but then again...

I'd like to know what everyone else thinks of my theory.

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#14 [url]

Aug 1 09 6:24 AM

So in another of the forums Michael Scott mentiones that looking into Shakespeare's quotes throughout the books will lead to some "mini-spoilers" for what is to come in the next books. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think we should be disecting the lines themselves for the future clues or that we should be looking for clues from the plays they came from? Maybe a combo of both these things? From what I have found many of Shakespeare's quotes come from either A Midsummer Night's Dream or As You Like it, though the Alchemyst does directly talk about The Tempest. Many of the lines Shakespeare quotes in the Sorceress I thought were very telling, but if you think about the plays as a whole you will notice that they are all Comedies. Why is he using so may comedies, do you think? And what of the things Shakespeare says?

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#15 [url]

Aug 1 09 6:53 PM

QUOTE (Lucy @ August 01, 2009 06:24 am)
So in another of the forums Michael Scott mentiones that looking into Shakespeare's quotes throughout the books will lead to some "mini-spoilers" for what is to come in the next books. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think we should be disecting the lines themselves for the future clues or that we should be looking for clues from the plays they came from? Maybe a combo of both these things? From what I have found many of Shakespeare's quotes come from either A Midsummer Night's Dream or As You Like it, though the Alchemyst does directly talk about The Tempest. Many of the lines Shakespeare quotes in the Sorceress I thought were very telling, but if you think about the plays as a whole you will notice that they are all Comedies. Why is he using so may comedies, do you think? And what of the things Shakespeare says?

There is also a quote from Hamlet in The Alchemyst.

QUOTE
"There are more things in heaven and earth..."
Nicholas Flamel nodded delightedly. "...than are dreamt of in your philosophy," he finished the quotation. "Hamlet, act one, scene five."


Hamlet is so hilarious...

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#16 [url]

Aug 2 09 8:05 PM

Hey that's true, Sparticle! Thanks. I was basically thinking of the quotes Shakespeare used in the Sorceress. I didn't think to think of Sophie and Nicholas quoting Shakespeare before Sophie even knew that Shakespeare was also alive. So in addition to the Hamlet quote there is also MacBeth which I forgot to mention.

Thank you also for reminding me of Iris in The Tempest. I had completely forgotten. Iris totally was represented in the wedding masque! I forgot. Do any of you want to dissect the Shakespeare quotes in The Sorceress for further clues?

P.S. Just curious? What made Hamlet so hillarious to you?

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#17 [url]

Aug 3 09 2:47 AM

QUOTE (Lucy @ August 02, 2009 08:05 pm)
Hey that's true, Sparticle! Thanks. I was basically thinking of the quotes Shakespeare used in the Sorceress. I didn't think to think of Sophie and Nicholas quoting Shakespeare before Sophie even knew that Shakespeare was also alive. So in addition to the Hamlet quote there is also MacBeth which I forgot to mention.

Thank you also for reminding me of Iris in The Tempest. I had completely forgotten. Iris totally was represented in the wedding masque! I forgot. Do any of you want to dissect the Shakespeare quotes in The Sorceress for further clues?

P.S. Just curious? What made Hamlet so hillarious to you?

I'll help dissect quotes

Also, there is a lot of mythology references in Hamelet. There are some about Hyperion, this mountain who's name illudes me...yeah, that's all I can remember at the moment. I fail.

I find Hamelet so funny because, once you get down to it, it's one, big, Elizabethan burn. As my teacher showed me last year.

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#19 [url]

Aug 3 09 4:05 PM

I don't know much about Shakespeare, but one line of his that I can think of is "Lord, what fools these mortals be" from A Midsummer Night's Dream, Act III Scene II.

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#20 [url]

Aug 4 09 2:33 AM

Parts of this are from a previous post of mine, but I thought it might be a good place to start and then we can move from there. So here we go:

In The beginning of the Sorceress thread Michael Scott said:
“Shakespeare was one of the hardest parts to write. When he quotes something, he's quoting from one of the plays (lots of clues there), and when he creates the creatures in the car yard, they too are all drawn from his works. Now, if only someone had the patience to identify the creatures and link them to the bard's works, there are some great clues there...”

So here we have it:

From P. 286 of the Sorceress we know that Shakespeare conjured up:
The Serpent of the Nile, spotted snake with double tongue, thorny hedgehogs, newts, blind worms, toads (ugly and venomous).

In A Midsummer Nights Dream there is a scene where Titania is talking to her faerie legion and asks them to sing her to sleep. So one of her fellow faeries sings, “You Spotted Snakes with Double Tongue, Thorny Hedgehogs, be not seen, Newts and Blind Worms, do no wrong.”

What I understand so far is that newts refer to water lizards, and newts, blind worms and spiders were all considered to be poisonous.

And for another Midsummer (possible) reference in The Magician Dee mentions knowing the Amazons, and Hippolyta who is the Queen of the Amazons is a significant minor character in Midsummer.

So is this a good place to start or should I post all of what I have found so far (even though I am sure there is a ton more)? But I do have As You Like It, MacBeth, and (thank you Sparticle) Hamlet. Plus assorted bits of other things… flamelssecret/read.gif

Yeah Fumm, I love that line too!

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